yanmar 4JH4-HTE dificult to start

[miguelgdelrey]

not a glow plug problem...

 

[miguelgdelrey]

The Yanmar M200 is an 887.8 Horse Power commercial diesel engine.

YANMAR M200-EN 887.8HP

Model:M200-EN Brand:Yanmar Certainly! Feel free to contact the nearest Yanmar dealer or distributor for more detailed and…

www.maritimepropulsion.com

Really need more details from the OP on what is meant by "not starting"

 

[miguelgdelrey]

The Yanmar M200 is an 887.8 Horse Power commercial diesel engine.

YANMAR M200-EN 887.8HP

Model:M200-EN Brand:Yanmar Certainly! Feel free to contact the nearest Yanmar dealer or distributor for more detailed and…

www.maritimepropulsion.com

Really need more details from the OP on what is meant by "not starting"

Engine turns when keyed (fast and without effort) and sounds like the fuel is not getting to the engine.
After I try this several times the engine starts and works fine.


M200 is the monitor system for the yanmar 4jh4-hte 110hp

 

[miguelgdelrey]

Ok,
Here’s what nobody has picked up on..
If the stop solenoid was continually powered, the boat would have burned up awhile ago.
Engjne stop solenoids take a ton of power, and they work against a stong spring.
I’ve known of 2 disastrous boat fires caused by the control line to the solenoid being continually on.
This can happen (but very infrequently) in 2 ways.
a corroroded push button that stays stuck when you pus it

or,some panels have “ekectronic off”, which just monetarily. Activates the solenoid when you turn tj key off.

s0, that’s that mystery explained

could you please enlighten me about the location of the stop solenoid on the yanmar 4jh4-hte?

 

[smokey73]

yanmar 4jh4-hte (110hp) with M200 monitor system, it turns prefect with key start, battery voltage is ok, filter not clogged, no visible leaks (or air in). This is why I like find the solenoid valve (if there is any) so see if it gets stuck after I turn off the engine. (it is suposed to be closed on power as I have read)

Does problem only occur after you have run the yanmar for awhile and then shut it down and try to restart? When the engine in first started for the day does it start okay? How old is your start battery?

Please be specific on describing when this happens and what "sound" it makes when you try to start the yanmar when it won't start. How old is your start battery? Does the engine turn over (crank)? OR, do you hear a click and the engine does not turn over? OR do you not hear anything? Knowing those things can help narrow down the problem. I very highly suspect it is increased resistance on the relatively small wires from the key to the starter solenoid actuator coil, which is a common problem on many Hunters, including mine.

 

[SycloneDriver]

Warm climate?

# 2 diesel or unknown fuel oil?

Does it smoke on start up? How much?

Try a remote fuel tank mounted above the engine. This will provide a little positive fuel pressure due to gravity and eliminate the boat fuel system as the source of the problem.

 

[smokey73]

Thanks, your response on it cranking but not starting kind of rules out the increased resistance scenario. and came in as I was asking for the symptoms.
Is it possible you have some sort of problem with your fuel lift pump rather than the solenoid. Possibly a problem with the fuel injection pump? Sounds more like the fuel pressure needs to build up but that doesn't explain why it will start quickly of the "first start" of the day.

 

[miguelgdelrey]

If you read reeeeeeeeeeeeeally closely, perhaps the OP has solved his own problem. Look at the first "on" which I have coloured in red. The OP intended to say "off" but confuses the words "on" and "off". He had to turn the radar-autopilot OFF to supply enough power to the starter to get the M-200 (for lack of the engine name) going fast enough to start. This is the result of either :

1. The battery voltage is down. Take your pick between either poor charging or a failed battery.

2. A high voltage drop due to high resistance in the wiring to the starter.






He says the engine is "veri difficult to start". It's turning over but is "veri difficult to start".

@miguelgdelrey , you seem determined that the engine stop solenoid is the cause of your difficult starting. The only way to prove this is to install a new solenoid. So go ahead and try that and :

- if that doesn't work, come back and we'll look at replacing your batteries

- and if that doesn't work, come back we'll look at replacing your wiring to the engine starter

- and if that doesn't work, come back and we'll look at replacing your starter motor.

- and if that doesn't work, come back and we'll find something equally useless to replace seeing as how it's your money.

All pretty dumb ideas of course, but the point I'm making here is that you test and "prove or disprove" each idea before jumping in and replacing parts without any proof they are broken.

Ok , MY BAD, engine is Yanmar 4JH4- HTE 110hp turbo and the M200 is the monitor control system. The M200 is a nmea 2000 connected to the engine and to the rest of the boat nmea network which includes a Raymarine ev-400 sail autopilot, raymarine axiom pro 12 and 9, raymarine Quantum radome and several I70s displays. So, some time ago I did not have to turn on the other instruments for the M200 monitor system to turn on. It did so by itself with just turning the engine key. At the moment it looks like it might be taking the energy from the nmea network and I do not know if this could be a problem since the amount of electricity from the network would be much less than a direct connection to the m200..... the starting motor is working very well (in fact it worries me water could come back from the exhaust and damage the engine )
Is solenoid a rod that push the bar for the kill and not a a valve on the fuel line?

 

[Davidasailor26]

The M200 is a nmea 2000 connected to the engine and to the rest of the boat nmea network which includes a Raymarine ev-400 sail autopilot, raymarine axiom pro 12 and 9, raymarine Quantum radome and several I70s displays. So, some time ago I did not have to turn on the other instruments for the M200 monitor system to turn on. It did so by itself with just turning the engine key. At the moment it looks like it might be taking the energy from the nmea network and I do not know if this could be a problem since the amount of electricity from the network would be much less than a direct connection to the m200

Some instruments can be configured to power on based on network power state, even if they’re receiving 12V from their source. It sounds like maybe the monitor got reconfigured (either accidentally or by some reset to defaults) into that kind of state.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

the starting motor is working very well (in fact it worries me water could come back from the exhaust and damage the engine )

Be sure to close the raw water inlet if you are cranking and not able to fire the engine quickly. This will not damage the raw water pump as it is full of water and nothing can move. Remember to open the inlet valve as soon as it fires.

Is solenoid a rod that push the bar for the kill and not a a valve on the fuel line?

Yes. It moves the fuel rack to a no pump condition. You do not want a valve which just closes off the fuel.

At the moment it looks like it might be taking the energy from the nmea network and I do not know if this could be a problem since the amount of electricity from the network would be much less than a direct connection to the m200

Am I correct in understanding you to say that "if nothing in the M200 controller comes on, the engine starts quickly ?" If I am correct, is there some way to temporarily disconnect everything else electrical to see if the engine fires up quickly every time ?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Any chance you could provide a video with good audio showing one session of the engine being started while it is hot ? Maybe run it up and down, holding for a few seconds at each RPM ?

Also, what is the RPM while you are cranking the engine when starting ?

 

[dlochner]

The solenoid is on the high pressure pump. In this diagram it is labeled Magnetic Valve.

Easy to find if you have the service manual, which is available for free.

Download Yanmar 4JH3-TE Operation Manual | ManualsLib

www.manualslib.com

 

[artboas]

...........


Maybe for you but I'm Illinois.

Two years ago I was going to install a Trombetta P/Q610 Series solenoid but decided it wasn't worth the cost for just an extra toy. If all engine shut down solenoids work the same, the solenoid requires a large pull in current of 48A and then immediately goes to a holding current of 1A as shown in the manual :

View attachment 212508

The solenoid requires power to allow the fuel rack to open.



If the solenoid had stayed in the "pull current" position they would have burned out but they always require power for the engine to run. When you punch the STOP button, power is disconnected from the solenoid and the fuel rack returns to the no fuel position. Engine stops.



In this case, the engine would never start. This is starting to lean towards the OP's problem but his engine does eventually start after a long cranking session and then goes at any and all speeds. I don't think this applies to the OP's question.

Ralph
Interesting device.
Notice it has a 3 wire connection, which implies some “smarts” which take the solenoid to a low power mode once extended. Not sure, but I’ll assume they have a second coil in the housing.
This wouldn’t be inexpensive, bad not standard for an oem boat builder.
I personally know both boats that had engine fires owing to stuck solenoids, So, this company clearly knows the issue

 

[artboas]

Ralph
Interesting device.
Notice it has a 3 wire connection, which implies some “smarts” which take the solenoid to a low power mode once extended. Not sure, but I’ll assume they have a second coil in the housing.
This wouldn’t be inexpensive, bad not standard for an oem boat builder.
I personally know both boats that had engine fires owing to stuck solenoids, So, this company clearly knows the issue

I think I might have the answer…
I understand this is a Hunter 49. Correct??

Well, they are equipped with a Seafire system which shuts down both the generator & engine if a fire is defected. This is done through a sensor on the automatic extinguisher .
If there is something intermittent in the Seafire control unit, this could be your problem.
Best way to check this is disconnect the Seafire from your engine stop, and see if that resolves it

good luck

 

[ice breaker]

the seafire unit should have a bypass switch on its control panel.

 

[artboas]

the seafire unit should have a bypass switch on its control panel.

I agree.
I believe the switch is SPST spring return
So, you’d need to hold the switch continually
The Seafire schematic is very simple, and it’s easy to disconnect the stop solenoid for test purposes.
In any case, this might be the issue, and just wanted to point that out

 

[Screen Saver]

Simple. If you suspect stop solenoid and no fuel is the problem, just disconnected the fuel return line at the tank under the port side bed, poke the hose into a clean coke bottle crank the engine (when its in the not starting mode). If no fuel goes into the coke bottle, then clearly engine is not getting fuel. If fuel appears in coke bottle then engine is getting fuel. You also have a manual fuel primer pump on the engine. Having tried the above repeat the test after pumping the manual fuel primer pump 5 times.
Depends which Engine is in your H49, turbo version or standard version.