Emergency engine shut off?

[xavpil]

Since I can’t, yet, stop my engine I am wondering if there is an emergency engine shut off?
1989 cat 27 with Atomic 5411 engine and probably faulty engine controllers that I obviously need to fix
But in the meantime I’m hoping I can shit off the engine.
Right now, in neutral of course, I push the red lever all the way down at the lowest rpm. When the engine is close it works but when it’s warmer it doesn’t
Thx!

 

[Tally Ho]

I am not familiar with the Atomic 5411, but I believe it is a diesel Engine.

There are 3 things that a diesel needs to run, and any of them can be used to shut down a Diesel engine:

1) Fuel - the most common way to kill the engine is to stop the fuel flow. My Yanmar has a pull knob that stops the fuel flow to the engine…on my Yanmar, that fuel cut-off is at the engine. On newer motors, the key is used to shut off the fuel via a solenoid…so it is electronic, but it does the same function. You may want to follow the fuel cut-off cable down to the engine, and see what lever it actuates. I can kill my engine right at the block my manually moving the lever that the fuel cut-off cable actuates when I pull the know in the cockpit.

2) Air - not real practical, but you could block off the air intake (remove the air filter and stuff something in the intake hole… don’t let it get sucked in, or you will have a real mess. But if you had a ball of some kind, larger than the intake, but close enough to block off the air flow, you could kill the engine. This is a good technique to understand if you ever had a “runaway” engine and no other way to shut it down.

3) Compression - a diesel needs compression. This creates the heat needed to ignite the fuel. Without compression, the engine will not (normally) run. I say not normally, because in a runaway situation, the fuel or engine oil may be burning and create enough heat to “run away” regardless of the compression. On my Yanmar, I have decompression levers, that I can flip that relieves some of the compression pressure in the cylinders. I don’t think engine manufacturers recommend stalling an engine using the decompression levers, but it could work if you have them.

Good luck. I assume your season is about over up there in Milwaukee. I am waiting to the last day my marina will haul out, October 29 this year. I hope it is not snowing when I haul out!

Greg

 

[JoeWhite]

Turn off the fuel at the tank

 

[jssailem]

Fuel shut down is the safest and easiest on the engine. It is a certain action to stop a diesel engine that is operating normally.

That said sometimes oil from the lubrication system can cause an engine to continue for a limited time. This usually means your diesel and oil systems have a problem.

 

[Benny17441]

Nothing happens fast in a sailboat, hence no emergency. Two ways, activate the fuel shut off valve or use a towel or rag to block the air intake tube. The red lever probably activates the fuel shut off valve but the cable may need adjustment to properly shut off the fuel. In case of a "runaway diesel" fueling itself from engine oil, blocking the air intake is the proper way of shutting off. (rare ocurrence)

 

[xavpil]

I am not familiar with the Atomic 5411, but I believe it is a diesel Engine.

There are 3 things that a diesel needs to run, and any of them can be used to shut down a Diesel engine:

1) Fuel - the most common way to kill the engine is to stop the fuel flow. My Yanmar has a pull knob that stops the fuel flow to the engine…on my Yanmar, that fuel cut-off is at the engine. On newer motors, the key is used to shut off the fuel via a solenoid…so it is electronic, but it does the same function. You may want to follow the fuel cut-off cable down to the engine, and see what lever it actuates. I can kill my engine right at the block my manually moving the lever that the fuel cut-off cable actuates when I pull the know in the cockpit.

2) Air - not real practical, but you could block off the air intake (remove the air filter and stuff something in the intake hole… don’t let it get sucked in, or you will have a real mess. But if you had a ball of some kind, larger than the intake, but close enough to block off the air flow, you could kill the engine. This is a good technique to understand if you ever had a “runaway” engine and no other way to shut it down.

3) Compression - a diesel needs compression. This creates the heat needed to ignite the fuel. Without compression, the engine will not (normally) run. I say not normally, because in a runaway situation, the fuel or engine oil may be burning and create enough heat to “run away” regardless of the compression. On my Yanmar, I have decompression levers, that I can flip that relieves some of the compression pressure in the cylinders. I don’t think engine manufacturers recommend stalling an engine using the decompression levers, but it could work if you have them.

Good luck. I assume your season is about over up there in Milwaukee. I am waiting to the last day my marina will haul out, October 29 this year. I hope it is not snowing when I haul out!

Greg

Thx Greg for the detailed explanation
And yes the season is ending. Boat out of the water on the 21st. And I bought it a week ago, forts big boat so i haven’t been able to enjoy it but I knew that it would happen since I waited for the end of the season to find a good deal,, which I thiink I did
enjoy your extra days of sailing

 

[xavpil]

The red lever probably activates the fuel shut off valve but the cable may need adjustment to properly shut off the fuel.

great info, thx Benny

 

[xavpil]

not even talking about emergency shut off, what about “regular” engine shut off?
Diesel engines have been around for ages and older sailboat engines don’t have an easy and reliable way to be shut down?

 

[Stu Jackson]

You should get to know the info here:

TMS Sailing, Marine Diesel Engine Parts and Boating Supplies from Toad Marine Supply

Toad Marine Supply offers a complete line of sailboat engine parts, hardware, boat parts and supplies for the boating enthusiasts. One source for all of your marine engine parts, sales and service.

toadmarinesupply.com

When I first bought my boat 25 years ago, I found an excellent photo of my engine there and started to learn about all the parts. Didn't happen overnight.

 

[Davidasailor26]

not even talking about emergency shut off, what about “regular” engine shut off?
Diesel engines have been around for ages and older sailboat engines don’t have an easy and reliable way to be shut down?

There really should be a fuel cutoff somewhere unless it was removed by a previous owner. I know the Universal M12 which is just a little newer than the 5411 had a pull handle cutoff on the instrument panel. I think some other engines cutoff the fuel by pulling the “throttle” all the way back. It sounds like that works for you sometimes but not always. Maybe there’s some looseness in the linkage there that’s preventing that from working properly?

 

[Richard19068]

not even talking about emergency shut off, what about “regular” engine shut off?
Diesel engines have been around for ages and older sailboat engines don’t have an easy and reliable way to be shut down?

This is from the manual for the 5411 and related engines:

STOPPING THE ENGINE
1. Place throttle in the idle position.
2. Place transmission shift lever in neutral. (Center position.)
3. Leave engine idle for 1 minute for it to cool down.
4. To stop engine, hold throttle lever in the back position against the spring loading until the engine
stops. Then release the throttle from the stop position and throttle will return to the idle position.
Repeat if engine does not stop the first time.
S. Turn key to the “OFF” position to shut off the electric fuel pump and accessories.
6. Open battery master switch ONLY AFTER ENGINE HAS COME TO A COMPLETE STOP!
This will prevent alternator and regulator damage.

Perhaps the throttle cable needs to be adjusted or replaced?

You probably already know all that but I thought I'd put it out there.

 

[jssailem]

older sailboat engines don’t have an easy and reliable way to be shut down?

My Diesel engine is a Perkins 4.107. Built in 1973. 49 years old. The engine has an electric solenoid fuel shut off. Often known as a "Kill Switch". Hold the switch down. Fuel to the engine is blocked. Engine stops immediately.

 

[xavpil]

. Hold the switch down.

which switch ?

 

[xavpil]

This is from the manual for the 5411 and re.

Thanks a lot
just not too sure but what they mtn by idle position. On my boat it would be so the down, pushing forward. That’s the lowest RPM
But I’ll definitely try

 

[xavpil]

I think some other engines cutoff the fuel by pulling the “throttle” all the way back. It sounds like that works for you sometimes but not always. Maybe there’s some looseness in the linkage there that’s preventing that from working properly?

actually I Jane to push the throttle all the way forward. All the way back is high rpm, acceleration. Which is an another topic but so frustrating: shitting is: “ push and go forward”. Throttle: “ push and…. Show down”..

But you’re rightist definitely need to check the cables

 

[jssailem]

which switch ?

My Diesel engine is a Perkins 4.107. Built in 1973. 49 years old. The engine has an electric solenoid fuel shut off. Often known as a "Kill Switch". Hold the switch down.

@xavpil You said "older sailboat engines don’t have an easy and reliable way to be shut down?"

I said My engine is old. I have a "Kill Switch" built into my engine by the manufacturer. Not all engines have this equipment.

The important element is you need to discover your engine shut off. I would look for an engine manual and discover what method your engine uses to shut down. It is highly likely that the method involves stopping the flow of fuel.

 

[jssailem]

Please refer to post #11 by @Richard19068
He quotes the Atomic Mdl 5411 manual regarding shut down procedure.
If your engine is not functioning then you need to correct the failed or worn parts of your engine to resolve the problem. The Manufacturer built a basic stop engine procedure into your engine. It is possible the parts have aged and now need replacement.

 

[Davidasailor26]

actually I Jane to push the throttle all the way forward. All the way back is high rpm, acceleration. Which is an another topic but so frustrating: shitting is: “ push and go forward”. Throttle: “ push and…. Show down”..

But you’re rightist definitely need to check the cables

Yeah, sounds like the backwards throttle and inability to stop are related. Check those cables and linkages, replace as needed, and I’ll bet both problems will be resolved.

 

[xavpil]

Yeah, sounds like the backwards throttle and inability to stop are related. Check those cables and linkages, replace as needed, and I’ll bet both problems will be resolved.

At least I have somewhere to start.Thx!

 

[xavpil]

Please refer to post #11 by @Richard19068. It is possible the parts have aged and now need replacement.

You’re right