suggestions to try for : my brand new New Yanmar 1 Gm10 which won't start. ?

[MitchM]

brand new 1 GM 10. Mechanic said 'it ran fine after install in late April. ' Boat sat in the marina , launching was delayed til 8/25 (due to family health problems. ) Engine wouldn't start, so I called the mechanic who installed it. He said to put gearshift in neutral gear, put full throttle on and try to start it. I tried 3x, 10-15 seconds per start, no joy. checked again : fuel tank full, fuel shutoff in open position, no junk or water in new RACOR bowl , batteries good.

Tomorrow I'm going to try to bleed at the top 10 mm bleed bolt of the secondary filter (assuming the miserable little manual - lever pump isn't in the wrong position relative to the cam to pump fuel. )

Questions :

1/ If the manual pump doesn't work, how do I turn over the cam to get the pump in proper position to pump fuel?
2/ how do I know if it's necessary to crack at the injector, and if I need to do this what' involved in pulling up the (one) decompression lever on my one little injector ? (that process isn't covered in the slim 'owners manual' that came with the boat. . )

Yanmar's new instructions on this particular 1 GM say to pull engine stop cable full OUT (to stop position, meaning no fuel ) then push the stop lever gradually back towards full open while pressing the start button, thus giving it fuel ' til it catches. ' The maneuvering of the main throttle lever to full speed while in neutral gear , then backing the main throttle off to idle as suggested by the mechanic appears to do the same thing. Do you wise engine people see any pros or cons to either of these methods?

thanks (and fairer winds than we have on lake erie now)



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I'm about to bleed at the secondary filter and see if fuel comes out. if it does, do you experts recommend my trying to turn it over over w raw water seacock inlet closed , then open the seacock ASAP if it catches ? I sure don't want a hydro lock.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

if it does, do you experts recommend my trying to turn it over over w raw water seacock inlet closed , then open the seacock ASAP if it catches ? I sure don't want a hydro lock.

Good idea to avoid a hydrolock. Running the pump for a few seconds (with the engine running) with the raw water inlet valve closed won't hurt anything. BTW, the pump still has raw water in it while running as there's no way to replace the water with air. Source of air ? ? ? ? ?

1/ If the manual pump doesn't work, how do I turn over the cam to get the pump in proper position to pump fuel?

You may have to roll the engine over (1/4 to 1/2 turn) by hand to get the fuel lift pump to work by hand. Watch the fingers. ouch, ouch .

2/ how do I know if it's necessary to crack at the injector, and if I need to do this what' involved in pulling up the (one) decompression lever on my one little injector ?

If you're getting straight fuel and no air from the secondary filter, crack the injector as a last resort. I didn't bother to decompress the engine the one time I did this. You only crank the engine for a couple of seconds. Wrap the loosened joint tightly with a heavy rag to avoid spraying fuel. Tighten up the joint and go through the starting procedure again.

 

[MitchM]

I went thru the whole fuel supply system: fuel tank full, per gauge. fuel valve open from tank . RACOR clean and no h 2 0 separation line or junk whatsoever. on bleeding at #2 filter bleed bolt, I had a few bubbles on manual pumping , then a very good steady fuel flow out of the 10mm bleed bolt on top of secondary filter. (closed it up tight . ) 72 degree air temp and sunny, so no cold air temp causing engine cold compression issues. My VOMeter and shore power system showed 13.2v on the batteries which ad been on shore power for a day , I had good amps into starter solenoid etc.
After the successful bleed , I did the operator manual's suggested ' "Layup start procedure. " how to start engine after a lay-up' procedure: basically cranking the engine w no fuel (ie fuel stop cable held OUT while pressing start button to turn over engine. with shut off of fuel, engine won't fire but , cranking it distributes oil to the engine parts. ( 'do this once' , says P 33-34 of operator manual. ) Then after doing the one-time 'layup start,' the manual advised to do a normal start w fuel cable IN to supply max fuel and use start button ' to crank engine , but no longer than 10 sec. " to void burning up the starter. . ." . '

did that. no joy. I am now looking for where the new fuel tank vent exits the tank. maybe hornets or bees made a nest its the tank vent ? a blocked vent will keep air from getting into the tank as fuel is being drawn out by the engine fuel pump,, . if a nest blocks the air vent into the fuel tank, air can't get in as fuel is being pumped out. the fuel pump on the engine eventually can't pump effectively against an increasing vacuum created by the vent being blocked while fuel is being sucked out . so I'll check for a blocked fuel tank vent tomorrow. . ..

I'm running out of ideas of how to get this brand new engine to start., have reluctantly called the reputable yanmar dealer who installed this new engine ($10k) to make a service call ASAP. the problem is, it's now 43 degrees on the great lakes. my haul out is scheduled for Thursday. even if I get a tow to the travel lift, I can't winterize this new engine since it won't run to put the antifreeze thru the block. ( AND PS-- yanmar does NOT even give the new owner any winterization instructions in its 'operators manual. . . "

All ideas welcome .

1/ what's the most unlikely obscure reason a brand new engine will crank but not start ????

2/ winterization ideas with a dead engine, anyone ??

thanks as usual, and in advance

 

[JoeWhite]

Regarding avoiding hydrolock, place both hoses of raw water pump in a 5 gallon bucket of fresh water, this will circulate water in the bucket. If it starts, stop running the engine within a minute and reconnect the hoses.
If you are concerned about fuel tank vent, open the fuel tank fill cover to release the vacuum.

 

[jon hansen]

i do not know your engine. i have an old perkins 107.

on my engine, iwould now bleed the fuel line at the injection pump. bleed the pump it self, then bleed each injector where the line goes into the injector. each is done by spinning the engine over. note: i have an electric auotmotive fuel pump between the tank and the filter. i always have positive fuel pressure for the system. on my injectors there is a return fuel line. do not open up those bolts. bleed where the line goes into the injectors.


becoming a master of your fuel system is a must for us all

good luck , jon

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

1/ what's the most unlikely obscure reason a brand new engine will crank but not start ????

HAVE YOU BLED THE FUEL SUPPLY LINE LEADING TO THE INJECTOR ? ? ? ? ?

 

[HMT2]

Yanmars don’t have glow plugs,,,,it’s cold. Try taking a hairdryer blowing into the air intake to try to get things warmed up. I always had a hard time starting my Yanmar when the temp was in the forties. Which happens down here 10 or so times a year

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

My VOMeter and shore power system showed 13.2v on the batteries which ad been on shore power for a day , I had good amps into starter solenoid etc.

You want to check the battery voltage while you are cranking the engine at start up. If memory serves me, the voltage should drop to no less than 11.8V while cranking.

 

[Tally Ho]

A Diesel engine needs 3 things to run:

-Fuel - have you verified fuel is getting to the injectors? Have you bled the air out of the lines? Do you have an electric fuel pump ? Is it working? Do you have a fuel Cut off solenoid? Is it opening when you try to start the engine? Is the tank vented properly so you are not pulling a vacuum in the tank? Could the fuel pick-up tube be plugged?

- Air - Let’s assume your engine is getting air

- Compression - You said new engine, so let’s assume it is in good condition…but are the compression levers closed?

It must be very frustrating…I hope you figure it out…and let us know.

Greg

 

[Alan Gomes]

I haven't read this thread real carefully, and if this suggestion is buried in what has already been said, then forgive me.

I would get a small plastic jerry can (i.e., a "day tank") that you are certain is spotlessly clean, and fill it with clean diesel. Then, run a fuel hose from it straight to the lift pump. This will bypass your boat's tank (including the pickup tube) as well as the Racor.

Another thing you could do is to follow the above suggestion but also get an electric fuel pump (like a Facet) and wire that up so that it can take the place of your mechanical lift pump. Then, hook the output of the Facet to the input of the on-engine filter. This will not only make bleeding the engine an breeze but also eliminate the lift pump from the equation.

FYI, I have a 1GM. I am using an electric pump because if the diaphragm in the lift pump goes, it dumps diesel into your crankcase. Plus, I have it set up with a diverter valve so I can easily prime an empty Racor filter. The little priming lever on the Yanmar lift pump is a total joke. Anyway, I can explain how I plumbed that if you are interested, but first get your engine going!

 

[sesmith]

You didn't mention bleeding at the injector. Crack open the line fitting at the injector and crank the engine (use the decompression lever so it cranks easy with your hand crank). You should get a spurt spurt spurt of fuel at that connection. If so, your bleeding is done and it should start.

Concerning winterizing, you could just open the block drain and drain the motor. I prefer to run antifreeze through mine as it takes care of the muffler as well, but you could drain that separately. Good luck.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

on my engine, iwould now bleed the fuel line at the injection pump.

Have you bled the air out of the lines?

You didn't mention bleeding at the injector.

Somehow, I see this exercise as doomed to failure.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

 

[Benny17441]

You likely have an air leak in the fuel lines. Usually where fuel leaks out when the engine is running is where air may leak in when the engine is stopped. I never bleed air out of the fuel lines by using the manual lever of the lift pump. Just crack the bleed screw on top of the secondary fuel filter and have someone crank the engine until clear fuel spews out of the bleed screw. Close the screw and signal the person to stop cranking. If the engine's exhaust is below the water line do not crank for any interval longer than 10 seconds to prevent water from being sucked up into the exhaust. It is a little messy but if you lay rags around the area the cleanup can be simplified. many times the engine will cough and may start during the process. There is another bleed screw on top of the high pressure pump feeding the injector. If the engine still does not start open that bleed screw and crank the engine again until clear fuel is flowing. By now the engine should be running. The only other possibilities are a blocked air intake tube or clogged air filter or the battery and/or starter are not turning the engine fast enough to build the required compression. This is why the mechanic asked you to open the throttle fully, to facilitate the speed up of cranking revolutions. It is not uncommon for an engine just been installed to have air leaks in the fuel lines especially after sitting for a while. A small air leak may go unnoticed in an engine that is frequently ran but let that engine sit for a month and that small air leak turned into a large one. Good luck

 

[MitchM]

the excellent yanmar dealer Great Lakes Diesel who installed the new 10 hp 1 cyl engine came to the dock yesterday. he had advised me to bleed at the #2 fuel filter only which I did. (and I didn't have my whole set of mm wrenches on board including the 17 mm to crack all the way to the the injector. ) so had to get a tow. his diagnosis was-- 1/ engine was installed in a warm shop in march. ran fine off the new fuel tank w all new fuel lines. boat then sat outside in cold air temp from March to June. the temp difference forced air into the fuel lines. he bled all the way from the Racor to the #2 fine filter , then to the injector pump , then cracked the injector and bled at the injector. his theory was , air in the line was not gotten out out just from running in the shop at idle with a hose putting water into the raw water system . every new engine will now be bled to the injectors, then run in the water , at 3/4 load , while tied to the dock for 15 minutes before the customer gets the boat . running at higher rpms under 3/4 load for 15 minutes will force any small air bubble past the injectors . he said he'd seen 3 boats with new engines run fine at idle in the shop, then run fine at idle at the dock. but when they backed out of the slip, the engine died . each had had to be bled all the way to the injector s. and of course there is no advice in the owners manual that instructs a new owner how to do the bleed all the way to the injectors, and to run at load tied to the dock before the maiden voyage.

many thanks to all for the advice and thoughts.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks so much for that wonderful summary. Good hear you got her goin'.