Service life of nylon anchor rode?

[Kings Gambit]

I recently read that the service, or shelf, life of nylon rode is basically 10 years from the date of manufacture, fewer if used a lot. Mine has seen more than 15 years in the locker usually beneath the 160 ft of chain which it backs but with some occasional deployment into the water. Assuming true regarding its service life and I am anchored with the rode deployed and it parts in strong wind whereupon the boat is driven aground, what might my insurance adjuster conclude or decide re: my claim? That the rode parted b/c it was beyond its service life according to the manufacturer; therefore, the loss being due to my lack of proper maintenance of the ground tackle? BTW, I’m replacing all of the rode now.

 

[FastOlson]

I would be skeptical about that unless it comes from a trusted source, like the ..."internet"...

I have never heard anything like that for a life limit for nylon three strand. What I have read over the years is that it gets progressively harder to handle or splice due to embedded dirt and salt.
Can you cite a manufacturer's link for this info.
(Not saying that your info is wrong, just that some supporting info would be helpful.)
Thanks.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I would be skeptical about that unless it comes from a trusted source, like the ..."internet"...

I have never heard anything like that for a life limit for nylon three strand. What I have read over the years is that it gets progressively harder to handle or splice due to embedded dirt and salt.
Can you cite a manufacturer's link for this info.
(Not saying that your info is wrong, just that some supporting info would be helpful.)
Thanks.

Yes. I did pick it up off the internet at a site evidently of Cancord Ropes.

What is the shelf life of nylon and polyester ropes?

While there is not a universally agreed-upon shelf life for unused nylon and polyester ropes we suggest a 10 year maximum for ropes that have been properly stored. Exposure to heat, ambient moisture, UV, exposure to higher or lower temperatures and chemicals will reduce the shelf life of the rope.

https://www.cancord.com/faq-items/what-is-the-shelf-life-of-nylon-and-polyester-ropes/

 

[thinwater]

Interesting thread potential.

Time. By itself it means almost nothing. I have tested 30-year old climbing ropes and rodes than have been unused in a locker for 20 years, and found they still met minimum BS.

UV. Lots of studies. But most rodes do not see much sun. Vary the length and only a dozzen feet are in the sun during any songle use. Few 20-year old rodes have been in the sun a year (remember, only a short bit sees sun), and by the time they have been in the sun enough for UV damamge to matter, they will die from chafe. Docklines and running rigging are a different matter.

Chafe. Obvious on the outside, less so on the inside.

Fatigue. If high stress (thin snubber or extreme storms) you can estimate from permanent elongation. If a million low stress cycles, harder to evaluate.

---

The only wholly reliable way I know is to cut some off the end and test either the whole rope or a few yarns. The latter is not difficult and quite reliable.

---

As for the OPs question, how in the hell is the insurance company going to gauge the age of the rope in years? They can only go by appearance.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Interesting thread potential.

Time. By itself it means almost nothing. I have tested 30-year old climbing ropes and rodes than have been unused in a locker for 20 years, and found they still met minimum BS.

As for the OPs question, how in the hell is the insurance company going to gauge the age of the rope in years? They can only go by appearance.

The ins company can require purchase records, etc., if it wishes to. For the moment I defer to the folks who actually manufacture the ropes since they know what’s in them, etc.

 

[jssailem]

You know we can easily take this from the theoretical to the objective.

Cut off 5 ft of the at risk line. Take it to a test sight. (I use a tech company that supplies rigging to the Arborits and the logging communites.)

Have them test the breaking strength of the line on a load test machine. This is a common practice as they certify the chain and rope rigs they make.

That is how I confirmed the breaking strength of my Soft Shackles. Also how I discovered the design weakness and was able to double the strength of the shackles.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Actually, it's a bit more "complicated" regarding my full anchor rode which includes a chain-rope splice. The spliced area is worn and abraded from being banged up under the chain and from passing through the windlass over the years. My rigger will not re-plice the aged rope to the chain; so, new rope or do it myself which would likely lead me to discover why a professional rigger won't touch it, etc. So, it gives me more justification to replace if I find that a rope manufacturer puts the service life/shelf life of the whole length at 10 years. That led to my wonderment about insurance issues if it parted at the amateur re-splice or elsewhere. They're seemingly always looking for ways out of paying off on claims.

 

[Head Sail]

The only one who knows the life of your rode is you. Get the point?

 

[Kings Gambit]

The only one who knows the life of your rode is you. Get the point?

True, of course. But in any event I wouldn't like emergency actions in the middle of the (cold) night with the wind howling, etc. I think I've gotten my "money's worth" out of it, so I'm willing to upgrade to new rope with a new rope-chain splice. Just wondering if anything similar has come up for others.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

My rigger will not replice to the chain the aged rope; so, new rope or do it myself which would likely lead me to discover why a professional rigger won't touch it, etc.

Cut out the old crown and spliced in a new one on a roughly 10 YO rode which was difficult but not impossible.

For the moment I defer to the folks who actually manufacture the ropes since they know what’s in them, etc.

And of course they don't have an advertising department which will try to convince you to buy a new rode every time you anchor out. Reminds me of the recent discussion where the filter advertising department recommended changing out your fuel filter at least every year or you'll die an 'orrible, 'orrible death or worse.

Not quite. These clowns are actually looking for

BTW, I’m replacing all of the rode now.

Remember, if you want it to last ten years you must store it properly and that means no ambient humidity.

I can just see the Mrs. coming after you with the frying pan after you've just run several hundred feet of nylon rode through the Maytag washer and you're now loading it into the Ultramax dryer because you anchored out somewhere and now want to dry out the nylon rode !

 

[thinwater]

Actually, it's a bit more "complicated" regarding my anchor rode which includes a chain-rope splice. The spliced area is worn and abraded from being banged up under the chain and from passing through the windlass over the years. My rigger will not replice to the chain the aged rope; so, new rope or do it myself which would likely lead me to discover why a professional rigger won't touch it, etc. So, it gives me more justification to replace if I find that a rope manufacturer puts the service life/shelf life of the whole length at 10 years. That led to my wonderment about insurance issues if it parted at the amateur re-splice or elsewhere. They're seemingly always looking for ways out of paying off on claims.

a. Resplicing the chain rope join is maintenance and should be done every 2-5 years, depending on wear and corrosion of the chain. You trim a few links from the chain, trim 5-10 feet from the rope, and re-splice. Used rodes are not difficult to respice, but riggers never want to fool with old stuff. Old double braid is a bugger to splice, and old rope in general can carry liability. It's just not worth it to them for the meager charge. This is something every sailor should learn to do. It should NOT wait 10 years, because there is almost certainly corrosion under the splice. The easy work of 15 minutes. (note the link I am splicing to is clean because I removed several)

b. Samson has a good guide to rope. Samson Rope Guide. Also Marlow. Marlow rope guide. Age is not mentioned by either. See the pattern? Serch NER and other major manufacurers and you will see the same. Years alone are not an important factor. It's not hemp. Just like age alone means nothing for fiberglass, as it does for wood. Cancord likely has no basis for their statement, other than the general observation that older ropes may have been treated poorly at some point. The advise is not uncommon, but has no scientific or engineering basis.
c. I can't imagine an insurance company could require purchase records for rope. Silly non-sense that could be challenged, and no accepted meaning for interpreting age anyway. What would the number mean? Nothing. If they needed to prove the rope was unsound they could test a section, but it was almost certainly made unsound by something other than years. The most important thing is chafe... which comes back to the need for maintenance.

But, after 10 years, your chain is probably corroding and you want a new rode. Go for it. The rope portion will make good docklines. Chain can be used for kellets and tie-offs. My last rode got used up in such manner.

 

[Kings Gambit]

a. Resplicing the chain rope join is maintenance and should be done every 2-5 years, depending on wear and corrosion of the chain. You trim a few links from the chain, trim 5-10 feet from the rope, and re-splice. Used rodes are not difficult to respice, but riggers never want to fool with old stuff. Old double braid is a bugger to splice, and old rope in general can carry liability. It's just not worth it to them for the meager charge. This is something every sailor should learn to do. It should NOT wait 10 years, because there is almost certainly corrosion under the splice. The easy work of 15 minutes. (note the link I am splicing to is clean because I removed several)

b. Samson has a good guide to rope. Samson Rope Guide. Also Marlow. Marlow rope guide. Age is not mentioned by either. See the pattern? Serch NER and other major manufacurers and you will see the same. Years alone are not an important factor. It's not hemp. Just like age alone means nothing for fiberglass, as it does for wood. Cancord likely has no basis for their statement, other than the general observation that older ropes may have been treated poorly at some point. The advise is not uncommon, but has no scientific or engineering basis.
c. I can't imagine an insurance company could require purchase records for rope. Silly non-sense that could be challenged, and no accepted meaning for interpreting age anyway. What would the number mean? Nothing. If they needed to prove the rope was unsound they could test a section, but it was almost certainly made unsound by something other than years. The most important thing is chafe... which comes back to the need for maintenance.

But, after 10 years, your chain is probably corroding and you want a new rode. Go for it. The rope portion will make good docklines. Chain can be used for kellets and tie-offs. My last rode got used up in such manner.

Yes. Time gets away from us. Poor seamanship on my part to have a 10-yr-old rope-chain splice on my bower chain. But, it's stainless steel chain and looks to be in good shape; no rust under the splice. MY anchor locker is a wet locker that drains water, but also lets seawater in. The rope has basically been wet most of its life.

 

[thinwater]

...Remember, if you want it to last ten years you must store it properly and that means no ambient humidity....

Nope.

a. Nylon is used for deepwater mooring ropes, sometimes for periods that long. Nylon is used for plumbing fittings. Moisture has the initial effect of weakening nylon, but there is NO deterioration effect over time. None. This just does not square with observation and long established uses.
b. I have tested ropes stored in basements and stored in wet bilges for 20-30 years. No effect.

This is a boilerplate statement that comes from natural fibers in the past and non-technical writers. Pure myth for nearly all plastics. Samson and Marlow make no such statements.

 

[thinwater]

Yes. Time gets away from us. Poor seamanship on my part to have a 10-yr-old rope-chain splice on my bower chain. But, it's stainless steel chain and looks to be in good shape; no rust under the splice. MY anchor locker is w a wet locker that drains water, but also lets it in. The rope has basically been wet most of its life.

I don't know how much you anchor out, but my recollection is that the safe useful life of stainless chain and galvanized chain are accepted to be about the same. Galv rusts. Stainless is subject to crevice corrosion and fatigue, making it tricky to judge.

In your shoes, with a nice boat, I would change it out. I can argue that time alone is not a factor, but life has also happened.

 

[CarlN]

The ins company can require purchase records, etc., if it wishes to. For the moment I defer to the folks who actually manufacture the ropes since they know what’s in them, etc.

An insurance company can’t require records unless the maximum age of the line on the boat is 1) in the policy documents or 2) you told them the age of the line as part of your application or other communication or 3) because a survey flagged it for replacement. I’ve never seen an insurance company worried about the age of the ropes onboard. You are required to keep a seaworthy boat but as this thread shows there’s no agreement on how old nylon can be.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I don't know how much you anchor out, but my recollection is that the safe useful life of stainless chain and galvanized chain are accepted to be about the same. Galv rusts. Stainless is subject to crevice corrosion and fatigue, making it tricky to judge.

In your shoes, with a nice boat, I would change it out. I can argue that time alone is not a factor, but life has also happened.

TW. I did not mean to imply anything about the life of the SS chain. Only that there is no rust at the splice to accelerate its deterioration.

 

[PaulK]

We bought our J/36 in 1997. It came with a nylon anchor rode, shackled to about 20' of chain and a Danforth anchor. We sold it last year (2021) with the same anchor rode, though we did replace the anchor, chain and shackles. Is there a "shelf-life" for aluminum masts, too? Will the insurance company ask how old your mast was if it breaks? What about fiberglass? Fiberglass skis need replacing after only a few seasons, so boats must have the same issues, no? Things need replacing when they need replacing, but asking the manufacturer about expiration dates is a bit like asking a car dealer when you should buy a new car.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

That's the manufacturer's advertising department talking, not me.

When the ad department is talking life expectancy, all facts go out the window. These guys would sell their grandmother for a dollar. That's the name of the game today. Overconsumption.

I agree with @Head Sail :

The only one who knows the life of your rode is you. Get the point?

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

a. Resplicing the chain rope join is maintenance and should be done every 2-5 years, depending on wear and corrosion of the chain. You trim a few links from the chain, trim 5-10 feet from the rope, and re-splice. Used rodes are not difficult to respice, but riggers never want to fool with old stuff. Old double braid is a bugger to splice, and old rope in general can carry liability. It's just not worth it to them for the meager charge. This is something every sailor should learn to do. It should NOT wait 10 years, because there is almost certainly corrosion under the splice. The easy work of 15 minutes. (note the link I am splicing to is clean because I removed several)

b. Samson has a good guide to rope. Samson Rope Guide. Also Marlow. Marlow rope guide. Age is not mentioned by either. See the pattern? Serch NER and other major manufacurers and you will see the same. Years alone are not an important factor. It's not hemp. Just like age alone means nothing for fiberglass, as it does for wood. Cancord likely has no basis for their statement, other than the general observation that older ropes may have been treated poorly at some point. The advise is not uncommon, but has no scientific or engineering basis.
c. I can't imagine an insurance company could require purchase records for rope. Silly non-sense that could be challenged, and no accepted meaning for interpreting age anyway. What would the number mean? Nothing. If they needed to prove the rope was unsound they could test a section, but it was almost certainly made unsound by something other than years. The most important thing is chafe... which comes back to the need for maintenance.

But, after 10 years, your chain is probably corroding and you want a new rode. Go for it. The rope portion will make good docklines. Chain can be used for kellets and tie-offs. My last rode got used up in such manner.

@thinwater knows his splicing, as evidenced by the beer in the photo.

 

[Kings Gambit]

We bought our J/36 in 1997. It came with a nylon anchor rode, shackled to about 20' of chain and a Danforth anchor. We sold it last year (2021) with the same anchor rode, though we did replace the anchor, chain and shackles. Is there a "shelf-life" for aluminum masts, too? Will the insurance company ask how old your mast was if it breaks? What about fiberglass? Fiberglass skis need replacing after only a few seasons, so boats must have the same issues, no? Things need replacing when they need replacing, but asking the manufacturer about expiration dates is a bit like asking a car dealer when you should buy a new car.

So, when Yanmar advises owners of their sail drives to replace the rubber diaphragm after 7 years, that’s only a sales pitch having nothing to do with maintaining the wear to within a certain safety margin?