Temporary Overboard Discharge

[ramblinrod]

Planning a 1 year return trip from Great Lakes (NDZ) in and out of ICW to Bahamas.

Currently have no provision for overboard sanitation tank discharge beyond 3 mile limit.

Do not wish to make a permanent modification to vessel if avoidable.

Is it possible to apply a removable manual pump to the existing holding tank deck fitting to discharge overboard?

I would like to make it portable to stow in anchor locker when not in use, and use on buddy boats if they have an onboard pump out problem.

Best way to reduce smell in hoses / pump after flushing thoroughly with seawater?

 

[rgranger]

Sounds like a big hassle with a never ending set of secondary hassles.

Have you considered a composting head instead?

 

[jssailem]

While it is possible, not all things are advisable.

The normal act is to pump the effluent into the water and the water dilutes and washes the effluent away under water. Kind of like a whale the lets go then swims away.

Pumping it over the side in calm weather would mean you have the opportunity to have it spash on the side or deck of the boat. Let alone the mess and smell, the exposure to bacteria and medical waste would be a non-starter for me.

Thinking about having to do it during unsettled weather at sea.

 

[dlochner]

That is exactly what I did when we took our trip down the ICW to Keys and Abacos this past yet.

A Whale Gulper was mounted to a piece of Starboard with a switch and plug for a 12v socket in the cockpit. A short section of hose with a banjo fitting attached to the pump with the a banjo fitting at the other end to attach to a pump out fitting. For the discharge I used a collapsible pump discharge hose from Lowe's. This hose is flat and rolls up. It is long enough so the hose is at the water level to minimize splash.

While we were prepared to discharge over board, we never had to empty the tank off shore. Along the way there were plenty of pump out stations, some free, most were $5. Over shore and in the Bahamas we discharged directly overboard as pumpout stations were few and far between and we mostly anchored in places where there was good tidal flow and few other boats.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Is it possible to apply a removable manual pump to the existing holding tank deck fitting to discharge overboard?

I would like to make it portable to stow in anchor locker when not in use, and use on buddy boats if they have an onboard pump out problem.

What you have described is our standby pump.

Jabsco Amazon standby pump shown in the attached .PDF. Pumps from the the holding tank pump out deck fitting. Pumpout of a full tank is a few minutes without pushing it. The pump is stored under a seat and sitting on the holding tank.

This portable pump requires careful mounting on a board for pumping on deck. You 'll see what I mean. Also required are fittings for the deck fitting and a length of hose long enough to discharge a few feet UNDERWATER. WITHOUT THIS, it is extremely difficult to pump.

All the above warnings were learned with the first use of the pump. Once you're past this, the pump behaves perfectly and it is still a valued backup pump.

1. Pump very slowly when you start otherwise you may tear the diaphragm. The pump will be pulling up from the holding tank and it will be slow work to pull the vacuum. Once the is through the pump and falling, it becomes easy to pump as the discharge SUCKS the down under the water. No one sees anything as everything is underwater.

2. Also carry another length of hose which will reach down to the water. When finished pumping out the tank, use this other length to suck up sea water to flush out the hoses by continuously pumping. Follow the same start up procedure.

3. Save yourself the load of headaches we encountered the first time we used the pump and plenty of practice with it at home before leaving on the big trip.

 

[ramblinrod]

Sounds like a big hassle with a never ending set of secondary hassles.

Have you considered a composting head instead?

A dessicating toilet is a total nonstarter for us.

All of our normal sailing is in NDZs where marina pump out facilities exist.

Far easier / nicer to flip the dock hand the pumpout fee and a tip for a job well done.

 

[ramblinrod]

What you have described is our standby pump.

Jabsco Amazon standby pump shown in the attached .PDF. Pumps from the the holding tank pump out deck fitting. Pumpout of a full tank is a few minutes without pushing it. The pump is stored under a seat and sitting on the holding tank.

This portable pump requires careful mounting on a board for pumping on deck. You 'll see what I mean. Also required are fittings for the deck fitting and a length of hose long enough to discharge a few feet UNDERWATER. WITHOUT THIS, it is extremely difficult to pump.

All the above warnings were learned with the first use of the pump. Once you're past this, the pump behaves perfectly and it is still a valued backup pump.

1. Pump very slowly when you start otherwise you may tear the diaphragm. The pump will be pulling up from the holding tank and it will be slow work to pull the vacuum. Once the is through the pump and falling, it becomes easy to pump as the discharge SUCKS the down under the water. No one sees anything as everything is underwater.

2. Also carry another length of hose which will reach down to the water. When finished pumping out the tank, use this other length to suck up sea water to flush out the hoses by continuously pumping. Follow the same start up procedure.

3. Save yourself the load of headaches we encountered the first time we used the pump and plenty of practice with it at home before leaving on the big trip.

Great tip on the slow start. Thanks. Yes, our plan is to make both the suction and discharge hose long enough to reach below the waterline, to avoid splashing and to flush the system after use.

We intend to practice with freshwater and verify the system before departure.

Never though about a collapsible hose on discharge. Will look into it.

Any tips on keeping the hose from smelling too foul (other than ample flushing).

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Any tips on keeping the hose from smelling too foul (other than ample flushing).

Believe it or don't, we have never used more than ample flushing, coiled it up and stowed it away.

Now this is only for using it twice. Pretty sure if it's immediately cleaned, there should be no excessive smell. Even after one year if it's not too pleasant, a small price to pay.

Never though about a collapsible hose on discharge. Will look into it.

The hoses we use (the name of which escapes me) is white and has a tiny helical plastic rod in it. A collapsible hose would not do well on either side of the pump as they are both subject to vacuum at both the suction and discharge.

 

[jviss]

This all sounds so yucky to me! What's the particular aversion to installing a permanent overboard discharge? It's perfectly legal if it's properly disabled in no discharge waters. I have a macerator pump to pump the tank overboard, and a Y-valve, to enable direct head to overboard use. Both are properly (legally) disabled most of the time. But if I need one, it's a snap to enable it. I got caught full once on my way somewhere, so sailed into legal discharge waters and emptied the tank. No big deal.

 

[jon hansen]

what Jviss describes is totally illegal up here on the great lakes. big fines for a system that is a "snap" to enable. the coast guard/DNR is trained for just such cheating.

 

[jviss]

what Jviss describes is totally illegal up here on the great lakes. big fines for a system that is a "snap" to enable. the coast guard/DNR is trained for just such cheating.

Can you please elaborate on that?

What I do is remove the Y-valve handle and stow it, and tie-wrap the seacock handles. That's legal here in Buzzards Bay and environs.

 

[jviss]

just such cheating.

And, I 'm not "cheating," I'm following the regulations, and not pumping where it's not allowed.

 

[jon hansen]

jviss, your term "snap to use" is an indicator that will not fly up here. you said it, not me. they do not allow any "snap to use" systems up here.
your not allowed any system that can dump overboard. very picky in canada here on the lakes. that's where the OP is from. would have to dismantle your type of system once back home.

 

[jviss]

jviss, your term "snap to use" is an indicator that will not fly up here. you said it, not me. they do not allow any "snap to use" systems up here.
your not allowed any system that can dump overboard. very picky in canada here on the lakes. that's where the OP is from. would have to dismantle your type of system once back home.

Got it, thanks.

 

[jviss]

jviss, your term "snap to use" is an indicator that will not fly up here. you said it, not me. they do not allow any "snap to use" systems up here.
your not allowed any system that can dump overboard. very picky in canada here on the lakes. that's where the OP is from. would have to dismantle your type of system once back home.

So, if that's the case, what happens when you are returning home, and you get boarded, and they find the "temporary overboard discharge" system on board? Isn't that just as bad?

 

[dlochner]

So, if that's the case, what happens when you are returning home, and you get boarded, and they find the "temporary overboard discharge" system on board? Isn't that just as bad?

They don't search your boat without reason, they do ask to see required safety gear and notifications, registration, and ask about a Y valve and ask to see it.

 

[jviss]

So, hiding that "temporary overboard discharge" system might be described as cheating?

Just so I understand, Y-valves are not allowed at all up there, like, you'd have to remove them, or modify the boat to remove any way of pumping either the head or the tank overboard, not just disabling them?

 

[dlochner]

So, hiding that "temporary overboard discharge" system might be described as cheating?

Just so I understand, Y-valves are not allowed at all up there, like, you'd have to remove them, or modify the boat to remove any way of pumping either the head or the tank overboard, not just disabling them?

Who said anything about hiding? It sits in a locker that is easily accessible.

It needs to be non-functional. There are a lot of ways to make it non functional, including removal, removing the hoses, locking with a lock, securing it in a closed position that is not easily opened.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

There's nothing illegal about having the capability to discharge a toilet directly overboard in the Great Lakes...it's only illegal to use it.
Lake Champlain (which isn't actually one of the Great Lakes) doesn't allow locally registered boats to have any overboard plumbing connected to a thru-hull, but that's never been enforced on transient vessels. In fact, there have been MANY "Great Loopers" in forums and email discussions in which I've participated over the years...none have ever reported even having been inspected.

And btw...jviss' recommendation to install a y-valve in the toilet discharge line that connects to a below-waterlin thru-hull (can even be teed or wyed into the tank overboard thru-hull) is the best way to do it.


--Peggie

 

[jviss]

There's nothing illegal about having the capability to discharge a toilet directly overboard in the Great Lakes...it's only illegal to use it.
Lake Champlain (which isn't actually one of the Great Lakes) doesn't allow locally registered boats to have any overboard plumbing connected to a thru-hull, but that's never been enforced on transient vessels. In fact, there have been MANY "Great Loopers" in forums and email discussions in which I've participated over the years...none have ever reported even having been inspected.

And btw...jviss' recommendation to install a y-valve in the toilet discharge line that connects to a below-waterlin thru-hull (can even be teed or wyed into the tank overboard thru-hull) is the best way to do it.


--Peggie

Thanks Peggy. Not that I will ever sail my boat into the Great Lakes or Lake Champlain, but from an intellectual perspective it's interesting. I assume, then, that if I DID go there, disabling my overboard pumping systems as I do for Buzzards Bay would suffice: closed and tie-wrapped through hulls, and "Y"-valve handle removed and stowed. True?