Hank on vs Furler Help/Information Wanted
- Thread starter jmczzz
- Start date
I also like hanked on sails. I feel like they have a better shape. I've owned two sailboats with a roller furler and the simplicity is very nice also.
Every decision is a trade-off. Decide what is more important to you and then do that.
Every decision is a trade-off. Decide what is more important to you and then do that.
It depends upon what roller furler system was put on your boat, but probably yes.
e.g. I have two head sails on my current boat, the big forward roller furler, yes; the smaller staysil roller furler, no.
dj
p.s. You likely don't have to drop your mast to change this out. But you do have to disconnect your forestay. So be sure to support the mast with your genoa halyard or spinnaker halyard, preferably both (if you have both)
sail shape, sail shape, sail shape, .................................
matching the sq ft of your headsail to the wind speed is what we all want. in a beat, the apparent wind will increase. roll up a genny to beat up wind, baggy sails? bummer.
sailing at all points of sail is an art form. vmg's to weather with a baggy jib suck.
i like being able to sail my boats any which direction i choose. it's work to sail well to weather. it's work to sail a boat well down wind, spinnaker anyone. i sail with a crew. they enjoy the work involved with sailing well. me too! i have a sailboat for the sailing.
roller reefing is great for the reaching sailor, the no crew sailor, the iron jib sailor.
my choice? i'm a 'hank on' the proper size jib for the winds i'm enjoying. change the head sail for the changing weather.
i have always sailed with crew. i share the wealth of a fine sail.
jon
matching the sq ft of your headsail to the wind speed is what we all want. in a beat, the apparent wind will increase. roll up a genny to beat up wind, baggy sails? bummer.
sailing at all points of sail is an art form. vmg's to weather with a baggy jib suck.
i like being able to sail my boats any which direction i choose. it's work to sail well to weather. it's work to sail a boat well down wind, spinnaker anyone. i sail with a crew. they enjoy the work involved with sailing well. me too! i have a sailboat for the sailing.
roller reefing is great for the reaching sailor, the no crew sailor, the iron jib sailor.
my choice? i'm a 'hank on' the proper size jib for the winds i'm enjoying. change the head sail for the changing weather.
i have always sailed with crew. i share the wealth of a fine sail.
jon
I did the 3 turns which normally works, but many Hurricane have stronger winds.
So the wind got underneath my 3 turn rap.
Jim...
Old school wisdom was that hank on jibs were for racing and furling was for cruisers. A lot of race boats now have roller furling, notably offshore race boats that keep a few headsails on separate stays ready to deploy as the conditions change. If I had an unlimited sail budget I would like to do this on my boat, rig a big 135% genoa on the head stay for reaching then a small, easy to tack jib on an inner stay and a sprit for the asym out front. All on furlers.
A lot of high performance sport boats have roller furling headsails to make for quicker sail changes.
A lot of high performance sport boats have roller furling headsails to make for quicker sail changes.
aeolus is older that this. putting such on aeolus would not be of the proper age. does that make me Old old school?
You don’t have to take the mast down but you do have to support it to disconnect the forestay. Usually you can attach a halyard to a forward cleat to support the mast. You will probably need to replace the forestay as the hank on forestay is a little longer.
My McGregor 26s did not come with roller furling, so I decided to see how I liked sailing it that way before I threw down for a roller furling upgrade. I found that I enjoy the process of managing the hank-on sails. Frankly, I enjoy the process of just futzing with the boat in general. I also like the feeling that my boat is performing as well as it can.
I am also aware that working the foredeck while underway is a risky endeavor. I'm resigned to the notion that one day I will have not have the necessary strength and agility to do that safely and it will be time to install roller furling.
Until that time I will enjoy not only the relaxation but the physical activity that I get from sailing and maintaining my boat.
I am also aware that working the foredeck while underway is a risky endeavor. I'm resigned to the notion that one day I will have not have the necessary strength and agility to do that safely and it will be time to install roller furling.
Until that time I will enjoy not only the relaxation but the physical activity that I get from sailing and maintaining my boat.
That is my hope as well. I just don't want it to be the last thing I do.
My .02...
Looked at lots of boats, the one that I purchased had hank-on, others had roll furlers. At the time I thought the furled headsail a great option, but by other measures the boat I chose did not have a roll furler, but did come with a decent wardrobe of hank-on sails. Since then I have sailed a lot, learned a lot, and can say with satisfaction, I am glad I have hank-on headsails. Why? I learned that performance counts in my world. Whether it is on the race course or just cruising leisurely around, I really dig the management required to match sail trim and the amount of canvas to various conditions. I have sailed on boats with roll furlers and there is no debating their convenience, but I haven't been totally satisfied with performance (sail shape), especially when reefed. If I was less concerned about performance, then a roll furler would be fine (and I would not rule it out in the future) but for the time being I am very happy with my hank-on sails. I think of roll furlers as the swiss army knife of headsails - with lots of functionality, whereas hank-on sails are dedicated tools with greater capability for each of the jobs they perform. As it has been said many times before... its all about the trade-offs.
The cost and availability of used hank-on sails have also allowed me to expand my wardrobe to meet just about any condition I'll likely encounter and because hank-on sails are handled more frequently, wear and tear issues are more likely to be noticed sooner.
Looked at lots of boats, the one that I purchased had hank-on, others had roll furlers. At the time I thought the furled headsail a great option, but by other measures the boat I chose did not have a roll furler, but did come with a decent wardrobe of hank-on sails. Since then I have sailed a lot, learned a lot, and can say with satisfaction, I am glad I have hank-on headsails. Why? I learned that performance counts in my world. Whether it is on the race course or just cruising leisurely around, I really dig the management required to match sail trim and the amount of canvas to various conditions. I have sailed on boats with roll furlers and there is no debating their convenience, but I haven't been totally satisfied with performance (sail shape), especially when reefed. If I was less concerned about performance, then a roll furler would be fine (and I would not rule it out in the future) but for the time being I am very happy with my hank-on sails. I think of roll furlers as the swiss army knife of headsails - with lots of functionality, whereas hank-on sails are dedicated tools with greater capability for each of the jobs they perform. As it has been said many times before... its all about the trade-offs.
The cost and availability of used hank-on sails have also allowed me to expand my wardrobe to meet just about any condition I'll likely encounter and because hank-on sails are handled more frequently, wear and tear issues are more likely to be noticed sooner.
Comments about furling the sail to the point that you wrap the sheet around the headstay a few wraps is very good information. The people who leave a bit of a corner standing proud from the furled sail attached to the sheets enable the wind to collect inside and if very windy, can open up the sail and do damage. You mentioned hurricanes. If a hurricane is heading your way, you should remove the sail all together, including your mainsail and anything else that can blow away, like dodgers, biminis, boom tents, etc.
Depending on the furler manufacturer you have, raising and lowering the sail can vary, but most, other than CDI and maybe a few others, have an upper swivel and a drum for which the furling line is wound up. The halyard attaches to the top of the upper swivel sail, just like it attaches to the head of a hank on sail, but the head of the furling sail attaches to the bottom of the upper swivel. The tack of the sail attaches at the top of the furling drum. There is a slot or two to feed the sail's luff tape into via a feeder fitting a bit up from the top of the furling drum allowing the sail to smoothly ender the slot. In some systems there might be a prefeeder that you thread the sail through first, which enables the lead of the luff of the sail to not be so obtuse as to not feed easily. It gives the sail luff a fair lead to the feeder. Of course, you want to attach the sheets to the clew of the sail before raising the genoa, or otherwise you will be chasing it around while it smacks you in the face if there is any kind of wind. When ready, hoist the jib halyard and secure on the cleat at the mast or deck.
To lower the sail, you release the halyard and pull the sail to the deck.
One of the many advantages of a furling headsail is you leave it up all the time. No need to pull it down and bag and stow it unless a hurricane is on the way. Bags below, take up living space. Most furlers will partially furl the sail when the wind pipes up. With hank on sails, you have to go to the bow, unhank the sail, shove it down the forward hatch and put up another sail bigger or smaller depending on the wnd velocity. With sail on a furler, you just ease some in or ease some out depending on the wind and then you need to change the lead for the sheet to accommodate proper sail trim (another lesson later).
The two slots in many furler extrusions are for changing headsails (used mostly by racers), if they wish to go with a larger or smaller headsail. In this case, the furling drum is removed and the extrusion becomes more of a foil like a Tuff Luff rather than a furler for cruising (although many one design racing boats use furlers with their class headsails). That way they can use deck sweeping racing sails for better performance. You will notice that furling sail's clew is usually quite high off the deck when close hauled.
There you have it. Sail on.
Depending on the furler manufacturer you have, raising and lowering the sail can vary, but most, other than CDI and maybe a few others, have an upper swivel and a drum for which the furling line is wound up. The halyard attaches to the top of the upper swivel sail, just like it attaches to the head of a hank on sail, but the head of the furling sail attaches to the bottom of the upper swivel. The tack of the sail attaches at the top of the furling drum. There is a slot or two to feed the sail's luff tape into via a feeder fitting a bit up from the top of the furling drum allowing the sail to smoothly ender the slot. In some systems there might be a prefeeder that you thread the sail through first, which enables the lead of the luff of the sail to not be so obtuse as to not feed easily. It gives the sail luff a fair lead to the feeder. Of course, you want to attach the sheets to the clew of the sail before raising the genoa, or otherwise you will be chasing it around while it smacks you in the face if there is any kind of wind. When ready, hoist the jib halyard and secure on the cleat at the mast or deck.
To lower the sail, you release the halyard and pull the sail to the deck.
One of the many advantages of a furling headsail is you leave it up all the time. No need to pull it down and bag and stow it unless a hurricane is on the way. Bags below, take up living space. Most furlers will partially furl the sail when the wind pipes up. With hank on sails, you have to go to the bow, unhank the sail, shove it down the forward hatch and put up another sail bigger or smaller depending on the wnd velocity. With sail on a furler, you just ease some in or ease some out depending on the wind and then you need to change the lead for the sheet to accommodate proper sail trim (another lesson later).
The two slots in many furler extrusions are for changing headsails (used mostly by racers), if they wish to go with a larger or smaller headsail. In this case, the furling drum is removed and the extrusion becomes more of a foil like a Tuff Luff rather than a furler for cruising (although many one design racing boats use furlers with their class headsails). That way they can use deck sweeping racing sails for better performance. You will notice that furling sail's clew is usually quite high off the deck when close hauled.
There you have it. Sail on.
Something that I do to more closely approach the ease of roller furling is to stow my foresail in a deck bag. It stays hanked to the forestay, so all I have to do is attach the halyard and hoist it up (after leading the sheets aft, of course). With a reasonable amount of practice I have gotten pretty adept at hoisting the mainsail and foresail using the kicker motor and a lock-off tiller to keep me pointed to windward. I hoist the main first so I don't get flogged by the foresail.
Lowering the foresail is most easily done going downwind. Even with the mainsheet slacked, the boat tends to lift back to windward, so if I time it just right I can drop the foresail, tie it off, then drop the main as the boat rounds into the wind.
Lowering the foresail is most easily done going downwind. Even with the mainsheet slacked, the boat tends to lift back to windward, so if I time it just right I can drop the foresail, tie it off, then drop the main as the boat rounds into the wind.
Right now, I am mostly a day sailor, so a furler is easy and convenient.
At some point, I hope to Spend much more time on the Great Lakes, and I keep thinking a boat with a Genoa on a furler, and moveable stay for a storm jib or small jib would be ideal.
My only complaint about my Genoa on a furler is in heavy winds. So having the ability to hank a storm jib on an inner stay seems like it would offer the best of both worlds.
Greg
At some point, I hope to Spend much more time on the Great Lakes, and I keep thinking a boat with a Genoa on a furler, and moveable stay for a storm jib or small jib would be ideal.
My only complaint about my Genoa on a furler is in heavy winds. So having the ability to hank a storm jib on an inner stay seems like it would offer the best of both worlds.
Greg
Tally,
I did just that with my Hunter 170. That furler did not have a foil, so partial deployment of the foresail wasn't an option. I installed a stay that was normally kept against the mast, but could be attached at the bow chainplate just aft of the furling drum. Not ideal aerodynamically, but gave me the option to run a smaller jib when the wind was up.
I did just that with my Hunter 170. That furler did not have a foil, so partial deployment of the foresail wasn't an option. I installed a stay that was normally kept against the mast, but could be attached at the bow chainplate just aft of the furling drum. Not ideal aerodynamically, but gave me the option to run a smaller jib when the wind was up.
this thread has turned out to be a terrific discussion on headsails and using them both furl and hank. thank you all for this. It is an excellent refresher.
The idea of having a slightly inboard stay to hack on a storm jib is a great idea. I would like to hear more about how that works? jmc
The idea of having a slightly inboard stay to hack on a storm jib is a great idea. I would like to hear more about how that works? jmc
A stay aft of the forestay is often referred to as a solent stay. One or more solent stays are characteristics of a clipper rig (at least to my understanding). On my Hunter 170, I was able to attach it to the same chainplate that the roller furler was attached to.
In situations where it needed its own mount, care would have to be take to make sure the load was spread out over a wide enough section of the foredeck or otherwise directed to some other solid portion of the hull. As long as the main forestay remained taut, it would likely not have to be as robust as the forward chainplate.
In situations where it needed its own mount, care would have to be take to make sure the load was spread out over a wide enough section of the foredeck or otherwise directed to some other solid portion of the hull. As long as the main forestay remained taut, it would likely not have to be as robust as the forward chainplate.