1985 Newport 30 Propeller Shaft Spar

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Depends on the particular alloy. Bronze used for prop shafts and struts contains zinc.

The primary alloying metal is tin. Other metals are introduced in trace amounts to affect the properties, like zinc, aluminum, etc., the same way you'd add tiny amounts of arsenic or other elements to harden lead. Copper and zinc make brass.
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,010
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The primary alloying metal is tin. Other metals are introduced in trace amounts to affect the properties, like zinc, aluminum, etc., the same way you'd add tiny amounts of arsenic or other elements to harden lead. Copper and zinc make brass.
Right, and when the zinc leaches out of bronze, it changes the alloy which means the alloy no longer has the engineered properties. In some applications this might be completely inconsequential, while in other applications this could lead to failure of a critical piece of equipment.

In the OPs case, it is important to know what is causing the leaching and it needs to be fixed. I'd also posit that a prop strut is a critical part of the boat.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Right, and when the zinc leaches out of bronze, it changes the alloy which means the alloy no longer has the engineered properties. In some applications this might be completely inconsequential, while in other applications this could lead to failure of a critical piece of equipment.

In the OPs case, it is important to know what is causing the leaching and it needs to be fixed. I'd also posit that a prop strut is a critical part of the boat.
Agreed.
 

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
4,426
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
The primary alloying metal is tin. Other metals are introduced in trace amounts to affect the properties, like zinc, aluminum, etc., the same way you'd add tiny amounts of arsenic or other elements to harden lead. Copper and zinc make brass.
This is archaic information. It's the common lay-persons distinction between a brass and a bronze, where brass is a copper-zinc alloy and bronze is a copper-tin alloy.

However, in modern bronze production, there are many alloys produced that are classified as "bronze" but do not necessarily follow the above definitions. There are a number of bronzes in fact that don't even contain tin... This is then even further complicated in that many manufacturers did not use a bronze as a material for the strut in the original manufacture. Without more knowledge, we don't even know what your strut is made from. That pink areas definitely look like de-zincification.

Couple of pics
From the looks of your images, I would tend to agree with the yard that your strut appears to be in good enough shape to not require replacement, at least at this point in time. The pink areas are a concern, but clean them up well. From here it's not possible to really know but it looks superfical at this point. I'd certainly defer to the advice of someone that can actually look at it.

Someone suggested putting on zincs on this strut, I agree with that. Bonding it may be didfficult to do, but if you can then that would also help. I would definately put zincs on this strut no matter.

dj
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
This is archaic information. It's the common lay-persons distinction between a brass and a bronze, where brass is a copper-zinc alloy and bronze is a copper-tin alloy.
No, it's not archaic information, it is fundamentally correct. While there certainly are alloys referred to as bronzes that have no tin, like aluminum-bronze, the fundamental alloy called bronze has as its primary alloying metals copper and tin. Certainly, in marine applications, in struts, shafts, through-hulls, motor boat rudders, propellers, and so on, are copper-tin bronzes. Note that deviations from this are named with qualifiers like phosphor-bronze, aluminum-bronze, and so forth.
 

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
4,426
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
No, it's not archaic information, it is fundamentally correct. While there certainly are alloys referred to as bronzes that have no tin, like aluminum-bronze, the fundamental alloy called bronze has as its primary alloying metals copper and tin. Certainly, in marine applications, in struts, shafts, through-hulls, motor boat rudders, propellers, and so on, are copper-tin bronzes. Note that deviations from this are named with qualifiers like phosphor-bronze, aluminum-bronze, and so forth.
@jviss Modern bronzes are more complex than the historic use of the bronze definition of copper-tin alloys. I attach the current definition from the CDA, the Copper Development Association. If you'd care to read it, it states that a bronze is a copper based alloy that does NOT contain as the major alloying element of zinc or nickel. But, it does not state that a bronze is a copper-tin alloy. It also goes on to say that "Originally "bronze" described alloys with tin as the only or principal alloying element. Today, the term is generally used not by itself but with a modifying adjective."

Hence, as I said, you are using an archaic definition. But then I guess as you are an electrical engineer, you know everything there is in the world of engineering... I'm happy for you....

bronze.JPG


Note in the above the alloys called "manganese bronzes", a likely candidate for the alloy used in the OP's strut, is technically a brass, despite it's name...

dj
 
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jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Modern bronzes are more complex than the historic use of the bronze definition of copper-tin alloys. I attach the current definition from the CDA, the Copper Development Association. If you'd care to read it, it states that a bronze is a copper based alloy that does NOT contain as the major alloying element of zinc or nickel. But, it does not state that a bronze is a copper-tin alloy. It also goes on to say that "Originally "bronze" described alloys with tin as the only or principal alloying element. Today, the term is generally used not by itself but with a modifying adjective."

Hence, as I said, you are using an archaic definition. But then I guess as you are an electrical engineer, you know everything there is in the world of engineering... I'm happy for you....

View attachment 203148

dj
Thanks for that. I'm always up for learning something.
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,010
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Once upon a time I had a boat with a bronze strut. On haul out I noticed some pinking, didn't think it was a lot. A year or two later as I was getting ready to launch I discovered a crack in the strut. Launch was delayed a couple of months to have a new strut cast

.DSC_0063-2.jpeg
 

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
4,426
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
In the OPs case, it is important to know what is causing the leaching and it needs to be fixed. I'd also posit that a prop strut is a critical part of the boat.
The cause is lack of protection, especially if the strut is made from manganese bronze. Dezincification is the "normal" degradation of this kind of alloy in seawater. The OP doesn't say the age of the boat, the Newport 30 Mark iii's were made between 1971 and 1996. So the boat is somehwere between 51 and 26 years old. 26 years is a bit short for the amount of dezincification observed, but 51 years, and the obvious lack of protection, and I'd say that's darned good.

For sure the OP has to find out to what extent the dezincification has extended. It's impossible to do that via photos. The strut must be cleaned via sanding, grinding, or however, to remove all traces of the dezincified material. That will reveal what is left of the strut that is still structurally sound. No reason to go lightly here, all dezincified material has no structural integrity left. Think of the metal as having a structure more like a sponge (if cracks have not developed, another risk) rather than being solid.

dj