By the way, since you're an expert, can you tell me what USCG or other regulation requires that fire extinguishers me in plain sight on private vessels? I can't find any.
New Fire Extinguisher Regs
- Thread starter kloudie1
- Start date
Bull. Shit.
I've personally seen a number of diesel trucks burn to the frame in minutes, before the fire department could do anything. At least one fire started while we were sitting around after work, after the truck have been off for an hour. A battery cable chafed near the fuel line, started sparking, melted through the DOT-rated fuel line, and up she went in minutes.
It's not going to explode. It burns very nicely.
I've been looking into that, and I believe that may not be correct.
By reference, fire extinguishers and there installation must meet the requirements of NFPA 10. The requirements for inspection were expressly waived for recreational vessels, but the remaining requirements left in place. And NFPA 10 says that extinguishers in cabinets must be marked. For example, the requirements on which the fire extinguishers are built was not removed.
13.6.3.1.3.10 Cabinets
13.6.3.1.3.10.1
Cabinets housing fire extinguishers shall not be locked, except where fire extinguishers are subject to malicious use and cabinets include a means of emergency access. [10:6.1.3.10.1]
13.6.3.1.3.10.2
The location of fire extinguishers as described in 13.6.3.1.3.3.2 shall be marked conspicuously. [10:6.1.3.10.2]
I'm surprised. You can throw a lit match into a bucket of diesel and the match will simply go out. I'd like to understand exactly how that truck went up. Maybe the fuel was very hot?
spreading lies is very dangerous! stop it!
Well, I've seen it done; my oil burner service guy demonstrated it to me..
spreading lies is very dangerous! stop it!
i've seen sailboats sail up very close to a moving ship. however most of us know that it is profoundly stupid to do such.
the rule of 'gross tonnage' ain't on the books but wisdom dictates it is foolhardy to sail anywhere near a large moving ship.
just trying to preach "safety first" by being blunt.
extinguishers out in the open, down low is good, common sense.
promoting throwing matches at flammable liquids, not so much
the rule of 'gross tonnage' ain't on the books but wisdom dictates it is foolhardy to sail anywhere near a large moving ship.
just trying to preach "safety first" by being blunt.
extinguishers out in the open, down low is good, common sense.
promoting throwing matches at flammable liquids, not so much
Actually, it is reasonably common.
Soak some into a rag and light that. For example, if the fuel gets in insulation or over some wires, it will go like crazy. It just needs something, anything, to make a wick so it can start. And after just a few minutes of burning, there will be plenty of heat and vapor.
aeolus, my boat, was custom built for a doc from boston. it has a "one tree" interior. all the lumber used in the boat came from one tree trunk so the grains match throughout. did i mount the brackets for the extinguishers into that wood? no! the original builder did. out in the open, down low and it's great that he understood safety first.
No, I was still digging.
In 2016 the USCG addopted NFPA 10 portable fire extinguisher requirements by reference. They expressly removed the record keeping requirements in 2021 for recreational boats (in 2016 they were focused on commercial boats and the application to recreational boats was overlooked), but intensionally left the rest. You really can't make an argument against a sign.
NFPA 10.
13.6.3.1.3.10.1. Cabinets housing fire extinguishers shall not be locked, except where fire extinguishers are subject to malicious use and cabinets include a means of emergency access. [10:6.1.3.10.1]
13.6.3.1.3.10.2. The location of fire extinguishers as described in 13.6.3.1.3.3.2 shall be marked conspicuously. [10:6.1.3.10.2]
So yes, it is a requirement to label extinguishers in cabinets. The rule is not easy to trace, and many do not follow it, but I have seen many labeled, and the rest seem to be just ... wrong. I spoke to a local USCG guy, and he said yes, they write warnings for extinguishers in un
marked cabinets.---
An annoying thing about many standards is that they are copyrighted, and so you cannot link to them. I do regret that.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to inflame passions on this topic! I'm learning every day. I though diesel was quite safe unless it was atomized under pressure, as in my oil burner or diesel engine.
I was boarded once by the USCG, and they asked to see the extinguishers, but never mentioned anything about them being in cabinets which were not marked. (They gave me a written warning about the lack of some placards about waste and oil disposal.)
I was boarded once by the USCG, and they asked to see the extinguishers, but never mentioned anything about them being in cabinets which were not marked. (They gave me a written warning about the lack of some placards about waste and oil disposal.)
Interesting. I wasn't warned about that with the CG boarding, my marine surveyor for purchase never mentioned it, and the survey for insurance never mentioned it.No, I was still digging.
In 2016 the USCG addopted NFPA 10 portable fire extinguisher requirements by reference. They expressly removed the record keeping requirements in 2021 for recreational boats (in 2016 they were focused on commercial boats and the application to recreational boats was overlooked), but intensionally left the rest. You really can't make an argument against a sign.
NFPA 10.
13.6.3.1.3.10.1. Cabinets housing fire extinguishers shall not be locked, except where fire extinguishers are subject to malicious use and cabinets include a means of emergency access. [10:6.1.3.10.1]
13.6.3.1.3.10.2. The location of fire extinguishers as described in 13.6.3.1.3.3.2 shall be marked conspicuously. [10:6.1.3.10.2]
So yes, it is a requirement to label extinguishers in cabinets. The rule is not easy to trace, and many do not follow it, but I have seen many labeled, and the rest seem to be just ... wrong. I spoke to a local USCG guy, and he said yes, they write warnings for extinguishers in un
---
An annoying thing about many standards is that they are copyrighted, and so you cannot link to them. I do regret that.
I have always marked them with a small (about 2" x 6") sign (on my cruising cat there were two in cabinets, plus a fire blanket, also labeled). The galley extinguisher was in a bracket at the galley entrance. I spent my career in petroleum settings (lab and plant) where small fires were not that unusual (lab testing and welding) and response was well-trained.
Well you did, and you sure got a bit touchy over it. What @jon hansen said was true, and while not regulations is very good advise. I wouldn’t take his post as arrogant, it would take it as concern for oursafety and thus written in stern words. And really who cares about a couple typos… seriously we all make them.
I served in the US Navy for 5 years in 2001-2006. While in boot camp we spent a week or so learning ranks/military bearing, a few days on naval history, a week on line handling and general seamanship, but we spent 2 full weeks on firefighting. This one topic we spent the most time on, even more so than how to handle the ship, or even damage control. There is a reason, because 911 doesn’t work in the middle of the ocean and thus every sailor is a firefighter first. I took this even further and took training in aircraft firefighting as well. The Navy takes fires seriously, very seriously. Lives and ships have been lost due to fires. The worst fire in recent memory was onboard the USS George Washington. A cigarette put in a coffee can of other butts caught fire and other materials in the compartment where this was located created a very dangerous environment. This fire happened during a ship to ship replenishment operation where the GW was taking on aircraft fuel as well as regular stores. It took the well trained crew almost 18 hours to put out the fire. It severely damaged the ship, it was one compartment from the reactor spaces, and destroyed one of her rudder control rooms. Thankfully only one sailor was injured severely enough to have to be flown off ship, no fatalities. Now this started as a small fire that could have easily been put out with your foot, but quickly turned into a large enough fire to almost cost the ship… and we are talking a huge ship, for those who don’t know the USS George Washington is a Nimitz Class aircraft carrier.
My point here is a fire can get crazy quickly, and even with trained personnel (and we train for fires CONSTANTLY) it can get out of hand. So now put a crew of inexperienced and possibly inebriated people onboard a small vessel, add a small fire at the stove due to some spilled food on the burner and then panic… now you have a mess and you need to provide the best possible tools to bring it all under control…well thats where Jon’s post comes in.
So yes I agree we all need to “Tighten up our game”. Me included. I have a new boat that was owned by a typical boater that didn’t do everything correctly. But at least he tried doesn’t work in reality. We can’t fight fires if we can’t find the proper tools, to put those tools where they can be found.
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While n
Yes I take fire safety seriously. Chalk it up to my Navy training or be being arrogant, or what have you IDC.
While nice and pretty, it doesn’t say “I’m telling you where a fire extinguisher is located”. It’s pretty and brass… it should be red and attention getting. If you are more worried about looks than safety, then I will never sail with you. I will wave from the dock and pray to Neptune that you return safely.
Yes I take fire safety seriously. Chalk it up to my Navy training or be being arrogant, or what have you IDC.
