Just purchased this one. From the bottom of the companion way steps to the stern, the floor is spongy. Do I cut through the sole of the boat floor and remove the rotted material, (I am guessing it is wood) replace it with good material, glue and screw it down to the stringers, and then reinstall the old fiberglass that I cut up? I have never done this in the past.
Soft floor/hull
- Thread starter Michaelminer
- Start date
Yes? I’m not sure how you are expecting an answer to this.....pictures, boat model/ year etc. give us something to work with.
No disrespect intended= It is a Catalina 25. 1978, Pictures will not help at this point as the floor looks fine, but when you step on it, you feel it is spongy.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,286
Welcome Michael to the forum.
There is a lot of help here. Understand you have a Catalina 25 that has a problem at the bottom of the companion way.
some of us know a lot about repairs but nothing at all about your boat. We can only offer help if you identify the problem so we can understand it.
Pictures of the problem help. Or a paragraph about what you see is wrong and the extent that the problem affects your boat.
Spongy can mean several things. Are you talking about fiberglass or plywood with teak and holly finish?
Any idea how this occurred?
There is a lot of help here. Understand you have a Catalina 25 that has a problem at the bottom of the companion way.
some of us know a lot about repairs but nothing at all about your boat. We can only offer help if you identify the problem so we can understand it.
Pictures of the problem help. Or a paragraph about what you see is wrong and the extent that the problem affects your boat.
Spongy can mean several things. Are you talking about fiberglass or plywood with teak and holly finish?
Any idea how this occurred?
I suspect the material between the fiberglass floor you walk on of the boat and the exterior hull , (plywood?) is rotted either from water or from sitting. It is soft to walk on from the floor you first step on at the bottom of the companion way steps back to the area of the head and sleeping berth, I am just trying to figure out the pat to make the floor solid.
I don’t know Catalinas but I also haven’t read any posts regarding a spongy floor in them. I would have guessed a boat of that vintage would have a fiberglass hull liner.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,286
Like Mike, your description caused me confusion. With the fiberglass on the outside and the wood floor on the inside. The floor (sole) can be screwed or glued to the stringer.
If you cut into the floor you may cut through a stringer or through the hull.
If you cut into the floor you may cut through a stringer or through the hull.
Very basically, yes. a spongy floor is usually caused by soft wet wood between the fiberglass hull and fiberglass glass sole To get to the soft wood you need to carefully cut and peel up the fiberglass floor to expose the wood. Then reinstall the fiberglass sole.
Now, there are many variations to how the fiberglass and wood may be layered. Stringers may be fiberglass and the wood may be sandwiched between two layers of fiberglass.
As others have said you need to cut very carefully to avoid damaging any critical structure.
Thats the basics..Tools and materials are more advanced and more directed to the exact job you have to do. Photos can always help as we all don’t know the various details of every boat.
Now, there are many variations to how the fiberglass and wood may be layered. Stringers may be fiberglass and the wood may be sandwiched between two layers of fiberglass.
As others have said you need to cut very carefully to avoid damaging any critical structure.
Thats the basics..Tools and materials are more advanced and more directed to the exact job you have to do. Photos can always help as we all don’t know the various details of every boat.
Before you go cutting anything you need to decide if you are going to repair it from the top or bottom. If you have access from below that would be my choice even though it will be difficult working up on your back. This is because the lower skin of the deck is usually more thin and would be more suspect to sagging or distortion once you clean out the rotted core. If you lose the shape of the deck the job will become more complicated. You don't have to put the old skin back on (It will probably be in rough shape after removal). You can put new fiberglass cloth under the new core.
I'm sure others will have varying opinions on which way to approach it.
I'm sure others will have varying opinions on which way to approach it.
Sherman- I don't think repairing from the bottom is something anyone would ever do. It would mean cutting through the exterior hull of the boat. When you go down in the cabin of the boat, you are standing on a floor. It is spongy. stringers and wood are below that, and then the exterior hull of the boat is below that. There is now possible way I am going to cut through the hull of the boat to repair this problem.
Ward- Thank you for clarifying for me and God thank you for understanding what is wrong. It is not hard to understand,. Walking on the sole is spongy. The wood or other material between the sole and stringers and exterior hull is rotted. This very simple and description has cause many well-intentioned and intelligent people "confusion". It is likely not easy and simple to fix, but the problem is very simple and easy to understand. Thank you for the confirmation.
@Michaelminer While I understand you don't think photos are necessary as you can't see the sponginess, photos can help us get a better idea of potentially where stringers or other underlying structure may lie. It also helps to get an idea of orientation of how better to go about approaching the fix. As the saying goes, pictures are worth a thousand words...
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jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,286
I know it sounded onerous. Explain your boat and your problem. Perhaps only a Catalina owner could understand.
Or perhaps armed with the knowledge that not all Catalina 25's were designed or built the same. The difference as explained by Ward, " there are many variations to how the fiberglass and wood may be layered. Stringers may be fiberglass and the wood may be sandwiched between two layers of fiberglass."
You have listed 30 years of sailing experience so this comes as no surprise... eh.
Or perhaps armed with the knowledge that not all Catalina 25's were designed or built the same. The difference as explained by Ward, " there are many variations to how the fiberglass and wood may be layered. Stringers may be fiberglass and the wood may be sandwiched between two layers of fiberglass."
The Catalina 25 Design
During those 14 years of production, the design went through a complete metamorphosis, starting out as a very simple and inexpensive trailerable swing-keel design, and ending as a relatively sophisticated minicruiser.
If you consider all model years, you can find Catalina 25s with five different keel configurations: cast iron swing-keel, cast iron fixed keel, cast lead wing keel, cast lead fin keel without glass jacket, and in later boats, a lead keel encased in fiberglass. In the later boats there was a choice of fin keel, wing keel, or swing keel, and standard rig or tall rig. However, the swing-keel model, with a board-up draft of 2′ 8″, accounted for well over half of total production.
As the design developed over time, features changed enough so that in a number of respects the early boats are very different than 1987 and later model years. As a consequence, its imperative for prospective buyers to know what model year theyre looking at when shopping for used boats.
The concept of helping an owner of a 40 plus year old boat that has had at least one previous owner over the internet engages the need to more carefully know all you can about anything that may involve cutting. Especially when cutting away the pan (an Inner molded fiberglass structure that provides internal boat structure and form - one of the innovations of Catalina ).You have listed 30 years of sailing experience so this comes as no surprise... eh.
BTW, while some folks make fun of using proper/correct terminology, it REALLY helps strangers, who will never step on or see your boat, understand better what you need and how to start to help you.
"Floor" is a sometimes-misused word for the part of a boat that you walk on. As the movie line went, IIRC: "that word you keep using does not mean what you think it means."
If you mean the cabin sole or the cockpit sole, best to say so. Old Catlina's often had molded cabin soles, as part of the interior frp liner. Does yours have some plywood with nice veneer laid down over the sole?
In fact, yeah, some photo's would help.
Best of luck!
"Floor" is a sometimes-misused word for the part of a boat that you walk on. As the movie line went, IIRC: "that word you keep using does not mean what you think it means."
If you mean the cabin sole or the cockpit sole, best to say so. Old Catlina's often had molded cabin soles, as part of the interior frp liner. Does yours have some plywood with nice veneer laid down over the sole?
In fact, yeah, some photo's would help.
Best of luck!
The movie you are quoting is the Princess Bride. By way of nomenclatures, let me explain in a way that is not possible to misunderstand. The floor you stand on in the cabin, (the sole) is mushy soft. It needs to be carefully cut, lifted out, the rotten material inside needs to be replaced, and then the the fiberglass sole can be put back in place and fiberglassed back into place.
@jssalem- In my years of sailing, (2) boats, I never had to rip up a sole and do wood or other material replacement. In this world, there are people that are part of the solution, and others who are part of the problem. Time for some introspection?
well. now I’ve made up my mind.……good luck on your mooshy floor. Sounds like you know the answer to your question. Those are some solid first 7 posts you have on this site……you’re on your way to make a ton of friends here.
Photos would helpful if for no other reason to see what you cut out and what it looked around that area…is it fiberglass? Teak and holly plywood? Something else?
It does sound like whatever was there was rotten…and you removed it, replaced it with something (plywood?) and now want to finish it…
It is common to seal any wood you put down with epoxy, particularly the underneath edges, so they don’t soak up water and rot again. If the surface was fiberglass, yes, I guess you would reglass it to match whatever was there or is remaining. Or lay down the piece you cut out and try to patch it in.
Good luck
Greg
It does sound like whatever was there was rotten…and you removed it, replaced it with something (plywood?) and now want to finish it…
It is common to seal any wood you put down with epoxy, particularly the underneath edges, so they don’t soak up water and rot again. If the surface was fiberglass, yes, I guess you would reglass it to match whatever was there or is remaining. Or lay down the piece you cut out and try to patch it in.
Good luck
Greg
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,286
Looking at the boats you have listed, I can totally understand this statement.
Having enjoyed the experience of helping to replace a “mushy soft“ deck and the risks of “cutting “ into the wrong places on a deck. Working on small medium and big boats. In the middle of my own refitting a project boat that does not use a Catalina like “Internal Pan liner”. The expense of over cutting or using the wrong tools and the delay of “total replacement “, I tend to be conservative and ask clarification questions before making random suggestions.
I look forward to to watching your project progress. Good luck.