Soft floor/hull

[dLj]

@jssalem- In my years of sailing, (2) boats, I never had to rip up a sole and do wood or other material replacement. In this world, there are people that are part of the solution, and others who are part of the problem. Time for some introspection?

@Michaelminer Looks like you are suggesting you should look at yourself in the mirror. @jssailem has been part of many solutions here. I've never seen him part of the problem.

You've been here for a day on this website. I've been here for years. John has been here for almost a decade. Yeah, you might want to look in the mirror.

dj

 

[Michaelminer]

Do you think time on a website gives you some kind of superior position? "Your opinion can't be right, because I have been on a website longer than you have"??? HAHAHAHAHA. Beyond mindless.

 

[Michaelminer]

Thank you, Greg. I appreciate your wise insights.

 

[MikeHoncho]

Do you think time on a website gives you some kind of superior position? "Your opinion can't be right, because I have been on a website longer than you have"??? HAHAHAHAHA. Beyond mindless.

What are you talking about? It’s called common courtesy especially when you come to a site and start your first thread, and continue on the way your are. I can’t believe anyone is actually continuing to give you constructive input. No one in this thread has been contradictory towards points of view, just your replys and demeanor. Have a great day and again good luck with your floor.

 

[Michaelminer]

It was never my intention to be unkind to anyone. I asked a question. As a result of the question, rather than a straight simple answer, I was degraded because of the brand name on my boat, and corrected because I failed to say it was the cabin sole, not the cockpit. Now just think for a moment, I said the soft floor was from the bottom of the companionway steps, and went to the start of the head. How could anyone think that the bottom of the steps and the head are part of the cockpit? My question was not out line, I was just looking for some insight. I have been sailing a long time, but I have never encountered a soft floor in my Sanibel nor in my Pearson. Please forgive me if I seemed defensive, but holy cow, to get greeted not with advice- but instead nomenclature corrections and boat shaming? How would you respond? You don't know this, but I happen to be a very nice person. Look at how I was greeted. It is not a very warm reception for a person who only politely asked for advice.

 

[MikeHoncho]

It was never my intention to be unkind to anyone. I asked a question. As a result of the question, rather than a straight simple answer, I was degraded because of the brand name on my boat, and corrected because I failed to say it was the cabin sole, not the cockpit. Now just think for a moment, I said the soft floor was from the bottom of the companionway steps, and went to the start of the head. How could anyone think that the bottom of the steps and the head are part of the cockpit? My question was not out line, I was just looking for some insight. I have been sailing a long time, but I have never encountered a soft floor in my Sanibel nor in my Pearson. Please forgive me if I seemed defensive, but holy cow, to get greeted not with advice- but instead nomenclature corrections and boat shaming? How would you respond? You don't know this, but I happen to be a very nice person. Look at how I was greeted. It is not a very warm reception for a person who only politely asked for advice.

I just re-read this thread, I recommend you do the same. Unless there were deleted post that I can no longer see, all I read is a question posted, multiple responses wanting to offer help but needing more information to do so then a bunch of name calling (tactful but still name calling). Nothing regarding brand bashing, nothing on degrading due to use of terms. You asked how I would have responded…….falling on my sword by appreciatively giving the brand, model year and accepting that what I am asking is being perceived as vague and open ended and doing what I could to fix it because I came on this site for help. That’s what I would have done.

 

[Michaelminer]

You are actually very correct. I misread what was being sent to me on one of the posts. I sincerely apologize. Flat out, I was wrong.
At the bottom of the steps, there was a rug cut to fit in place. There were two flat brackets screwed into the sole. These were put in attempting to bridge an unlevel floor due to varying degrees of rot beneath. They lifted straight up without even unscrewing them due to the rotten wood. I am no longer entertaining reusing the existing fiberglass cabin sole. I am using a rotary tool and an angle grinder to cut through the sole and a bit of wet, rotted wood around the edges of the entire floor area that gets walked on. The current mission is just to remove all of the wet rotted wood and the old sole, and give it a few days to a week to dry out and see what I am dealing with.

 

[Michaelminer]

 

[Michaelminer]

I cut the edges of the sole everywhen you can walk. Between the sole and hull I found what you see above. 2-3 inches of standing water in some places. Connected to the fiberglass sole was not even plywood. It was more like luan board. And then, for support, the luan lays on top of some kind of foam. But only in a few places. The support foam, which is very similar to expansion foam, in not consistently places between the luan and hull. It is just in a few places. In one of them, (the "brain" looking picture), the foam is soft. As you can see, there is nothing like a stringer. It is just hull and the horrible foam. So is the best plan to build some type of epoxy support stringer type braces that follow the contour of the hull and are level at the tops, and flange screw some type of high grade plywood into them and install fiberglass sheets over that and epoxy that to the fiberglass coming down the sides that meet the sole? Or should I find a similar foam product and use that to support the plywood, like it was?

 

[Davidasailor26]

Interesting. I wonder if that’s how it came out of the factory or if that was some previous owner’s attempt to stiffen the sole after it was compromised in some other way.

My concern with adding some kind of stringer would be adding hard spots to the hull.

 

[Michaelminer]

I am pretty sure the foam was factory original, but I could be wrong. Would it be bad for the boat if I created and installed some type of epoxy stringer? Only 2-3 would be more than about two-feet wide, 3-4 would just be the narrow walkway between the setee and the seating bench. So are you sayng I should find and use some comperable type of foam to support the plywood ? While I am down to the bare hull on the inside, it is likely a good time to install my in-hull depth transducer

 

[Sailor Sue]

Too bad you didn't leave a little flange where the original sole was. Might have made it a bit easier tying the repair back in.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I guess I don’t know enough about the Catalina design to say. I do know the ODay 28 had a teak/holly plywood sole that spanned at least 2’ x 3’ over the bilge without any real sponginess, so I think it should be possible to have a span like that without any support.

 

[Michaelminer]

Sue- That's a good point. I am hoping if either build stringers, or use new foam, I can get the plywood to the right height to epoxy in some new pieces of fiberglass over them to those sides,

 

[Ward H]

You might want to consider using G10 fiberglass board instead of plywood. G10 under a fiberglass skin could span the area and provide enough strength to eliminate the need for stringers. I think 1/4" G10 may be stronger, more resistant to sagging under weight, than plywood.
I had a cockpit steering hatch board that was sagging badly under weight due to rotten plywood. I replaced it with 1/4" G10 board just epoxied the skin to the G10. Very strong, no sagging.

 

[Michaelminer]

@WardH- That could be exactly the plan! I thank you and I will look in G-10
Respectfully, Michael

 

[jssailem]

I wonder if that’s how it came out of the factory or if that was some previous owner’s attempt to stiffen the sole after it was compromised in some other way.

David, I am inclined to see that as a previous owner's attempt to address a "soft or squeaky floor like you do under a land based wood floor.

This is what I would have expected to see...


I believe the floor was part of the interior pan used to provide stiffening to the hull between the two bulkheads. The sole changes, as seen here in the images, at the forward bulkhead where the inside of the hull rises up in front of the keel stem to become the sole. Note that there are 2 ways to access the bilge under the table, in the floor, that looks similar to the images of this messages poster.

My guess as to what happened, water entered into the void under the floor. The foam soaked up the water. The floor pan appears to be a plywood base, laminated to the fiberglass beadboard pan. As seen in the above images the inserted foam soaked and compromised the plywood.

The images of the damaged floor show the rounded fiberglass part of the inner hulls mold that look like stringers. An intack floor could rest on the stringers, or what might improve and stiffen the boat would be to add cross stringers and then set the floor on top of the cross stringers. I would be inclined to use fiberglass not foam to create the stringers that way water would no longer get to the sole (flooring) material. The sub floor could be G10 or marine plywood as desired with a laminate on top perhaps even a vinyl water proof/resistant glue down floor. A lot of nice options exist.

Water will still enter into the void under the floor, so there should be limber holes that allow the water to move to the bilge and be expelled by a bilge pump.

At least that is my take of the issue.

 

[Michaelminer]

@Davidasailor26- Lots of good insights, and clearly the foam in there has to go. I am going to create 6-7 cross stringers, but possibly out of some type of hard foam that you can buy in blocks, like foam for a an CNC machine. I can use several layers of epoxy and cloth to really harden them up and secure them to the interior hull of the boat, I will then cut and attach either G-10 or teak oiled and coated marine grade plywood, 3/4" to the top of the stringers and both epoxy and screw it down.
The reason for using a hard foam as the material for the stringers is that these will be asymmetrical as they need to be level on top and of uniform height, but the bottom of these new stringers will need to be shaped to follow the contour of the hull.

 

[Michaelminer]

In my past two sailboats, (Sanibel and Pearson) there was never water in the cabin. I sealed the cabin properly, including building new companion way doors, and using marine grade caulk and installing new weather-tight gaskets on the hatches. If this is done properly, where would water inside the hull come from?

 

[dLj]

There are two types, generally, of foam- closed cell and open cell. You will never get a perfect seal that will last forever. I'd recommend using closed cell foam and not open cell foam. Open cell foam will slowly (hopefully- preferably not but...) fill with water and the long term prognosis is less desirable than closed cell foam. I'd rather use a material that does not absorb water all, but I understand the ease of using a material like this in your application. There are a lot of boat building techniques used to address this exact issue.

dj