companion way

M

Member 131497

Hello again to all...
here are 2 photos of the edge of tbe companion way hatch. the inside edge, border is as you can see hollow to some extent in the areas that I dug up with the dremmel, ect. The question is, how to work overhead with west system 407(feel free to make recommendations, ect) so this product wont sag down due to gravity, ect.
Now, the other photo shows the cabin interior. Is as 1976 when it was build, smooth. how to prep such for a coat of paint? 220 sand paper?
oncw again, thx to all of you for pitching in. MERRY CHRISTMAS, happy holidays to all... stay safe when driving.
thx again
C
20201219_153407_HDR.jpg
20201219_153401_HDR.jpg
20201219_152707_HDR.jpg
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,952
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I would suggest wax paper on wood held up by something like duct tape, possibly using a syringe to inject it if the filler won't stay long enough to do the job then put up the wax paper, etc. The epoxy should dry fast enough you could hold it up there, if tape doesn't work.
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,303
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Download the West System manual or any other epoxy manufacturer's manual (all epoxies are similar in working techniques). You can't even begin to work with epoxy without a manual in hand.

For your application you will need a thickener (glass beads) and a thixotropic agent (prevents sagging). The epoxy will then hang in there like putty.
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,069
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Before sealing up the companionway, do a little digging to be certain the wood inside is dry.

Start by putting some unthickened epoxy into he crack, do not try to fill it, just coat as much of the interior surface as possible. A thin coat is all that is necessary. Drips, if any will be minimal.

Thicken the epoxy with enough filler to make it about peanut butter consistency. Then force it into the crack with a stiff putty knife. It will stay. Check the West System website for their manual which will give all kinds of good advice. It is a free download.

(EDIT) It goes without saying that to cover the surface below the crack to catch the epoxy that fall off the putty knife or off the brush. You might get a little sag with the thickened epoxy, however some sand paper will cure that.

As for the paint, in all matters of painting and varnishing, pick a company and follow their recommendations for prep, priming, and application. Go with a good marine paint, not house hold paint. It might be cheaper in the short run, however eventually you will rue the day the paint was applied.

Jamestown Distributors TotalBoat line of products seem to be a good economical option. I haven't used their paints, but I have used their varnish and I like it.
 
Last edited:

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,392
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
While Dave is correct... Most of it will stay, if it is thick enough. Then as the thermodynamic cure process occurs you may find some of it will drip... Cover anything beneath the work area, that you do not want epoxy drippings to spoil, with plastic, or some form of disposable covering.
 
  • Like
Likes: Dave Groshong
Aug 2, 2005
1,155
Pearson 33-2 & Typhoon 18 Seneca Lake
I might try the West System Six-10 as an alternative to the more liquid type to which you would add thickener. The wax paper covering is a good idea too after the hollow area has been dried (hair dryer perhaps?), filled (perhaps in several layers with the appropriate dry time between applications) and sanding of the resulting material. Like other members said, "Read and follow the manufacturer's instructions". The Six-10 is a bit forgiving as to movement.
 
  • Like
Likes: Member 131497
Jan 19, 2010
12,641
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I would suggest wax paper on wood held up by something like duct tape, possibly using a syringe to inject it if the filler won't stay long enough to do the job then put up the wax paper, etc. The epoxy should dry fast enough you could hold it up there, if tape doesn't work.
I use the plastic Acetate sheets like the ones your teacher used to draw on for an overhead projector. Epoxy does not stick to it but masking tape will.
 

DArcy

.
Feb 11, 2017
1,771
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
I haven't worked with six10 but I did use some West 655 G/Flex thickened epoxy for filling a fairly large gap recently and it was quite easy to work with. It uses a 1:1 mix ratio and has a peanut buttery consistency out of the tube. It does sag a bit in vertical applications so you may need to damn it up. I like @rgranger suggestion of acetate sheet. That would likely be easier to get a good shape with, and hold in place, than wax paper.
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,069
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Add clear packing tape to the list of things epoxy won't stick to. Cover a piece of wood in tape and then wedge it against the vertical surface.

One belief some seem to hold, and I was once one of them, is fairing is a once and done process. It ain't. Regardless of the method used, sandpaper will ultimately be involved as will multiple coats of fairing compound. So don't sweat a few sags and hollows, sand and fill again.

To quote Mads from Sail Life "Oh Glorious Glorious Sanding!"
 
Aug 12, 2018
163
Hunter 26 Carter Lake, Colorado
I’m glad I ran into this thread. I’ve been wondering what to do with this on my Hunter 26. Sounds generally like what you all are talking about here?

Clean it out then start filling it up with epoxy then finish off with fairing compound as needed? Seems like something I could tackle.

It’s been this way since purchase a few years ago, so not getting worse, at least.
6F74314B-679D-47D9-9E95-D39B39AC63CA.jpeg
 

DArcy

.
Feb 11, 2017
1,771
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
I’m glad I ran into this thread. I’ve been wondering what to do with this on my Hunter 26. Sounds generally like what you all are talking about here?

Clean it out then start filling it up with epoxy then finish off with fairing compound as needed? Seems like something I could tackle.

It’s been this way since purchase a few years ago, so not getting worse, at least.
View attachment 188348
For your application I would recommend using G/Flex 650 (regular) or 655 (thickened) epoxy. That is a joint that will experience some strain so the G/Flex will be more durable. Normal epoxies can be quite brittle and not forgiving of any flex.
Epoxy will need to be painted over since it doesn't stand up to UV. You may be able to get a color match gel coat.
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,069
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I’m glad I ran into this thread. I’ve been wondering what to do with this on my Hunter 26. Sounds generally like what you all are talking about here?

Clean it out then start filling it up with epoxy then finish off with fairing compound as needed? Seems like something I could tackle.

It’s been this way since purchase a few years ago, so not getting worse, at least.
View attachment 188348
This is a little different situation, because connecting the hull to the transom is pretty important.

Broadly, there are 2 possibilities. It can simply be cracked gelcoat with the fiberglass intact beneath the gelcoat. If so, the repair is easy. Remove the gelcoat and apply new gel coat. Because of the location color matching will not be a big issue.

In the worst case scenario, the underlying fiberglass laminate could be damaged. That could be a bigger and different repair.

First step, remove the gelcoat to see what the problem is.
 
Sep 24, 2018
3,519
Catalina 30 MKIII Chicago
First off, Dave has some excellent knowledge regarding fiberglass. He's guided me through a number of fiberglass repairs which have turned out very nicely thanks to his advice.

I personally would approach this slightly differently. I would first grind down a bit more to inspect as others have suggested. Grind down until you have reached solid material. When grinding I try to leave enough of the original so that I can regain the shape when the repair is done. In this case I would use a dremel or multitool. Practice on the edge of a piece of wood first.

Once you've gotten to good material, seal it off with unthickened epoxy. I would use a chip brush to apply it. Definitely mask off the area around it with masking tape and put something underneath.

I'd use 404 filler to fill this crack mostly because it's what I'm most familiar with. I've also used something called P14. It's a thick paste thats very easy to work with. Similar to thick plaster consistency but smooth. It's available from Express Composites.
I would use masking tape since you're going to sand through any drips that come out of the crack. If working with epoxy and a filler mix as much as you think will mix in there and then mix even more. The key to getting more to mix in is to expose more surface area for the filler to mix with. I would use a syringe to apply. In some cases you may have to build up the thickened epoxy in steps. Dont be afraid to put a bit more than needed on in order to get a good application since you'll have to sand it down afterwards. I would carefully use an orbital sander and a sanding block. 80-100 grit sand paper is suggested.

Another idea would be to make a gutter or channel out of tape just below the crack and filling it up to the point that its just above the crack. There's many different ways to approach this.
 
Nov 6, 2017
78
Catalina 30 5611 Stratford, Ct
I have to say that before you do anything you should determine why this crack is there in the first place. If you skip this step you may find yourself right back where you are now in months or years to come. Why do the work twice? After you have an idea what has caused the crack you can take the appropriate steps to make a lasting repair. Most cracks, to mention a few, are from some sort of stress but some are caused by water infiltration and freezing. If the area flexes under pressure reinforcement may be needed in the form of fiberglass. Speaking of fiberglass that should probably be the final step of repair because it will add strength to the area and create a surface that can be faired, primed, and painted. Keep in mind that if you plan on using Gelcoat to finalize your repair it will not stick to epoxy well if at all, but that is another subject. That said the entire area should be ground back to remove every trace of discoloration, chips, and hairline cracks. After grinding, if find you have removed more than one-eighth of an inch of material from the area you must use fiberglass to make the repair sound, as an epoxy filler may just snap off. The surface also needs to be free of moisture solvents and oils including wax. A good way to check for moisture content is to seal the area with clear plastic and leave it that way for a couple of days. If moisture is formed under the plastic then the area needs to be dried out more and checked with the plastic again. You can also get a moisture meter that will give you an instant reading of the moisture content. The trick to keeping your epoxy from sagging is to thicken it to a fairly stiff mix and only apply it in thin coats. While this may take several layers to complete the repair the end result will be a better repair. Be sure that you adhere to the epoxy instructions, especially the time allowed before you need to sand the surface between layers.
As for the interior, if the surface is smooth it should be sanded to the grit the paint manufacturer suggests and wiped down with the manufactures suggested solvent. If it is not smooth sanding is still required in most cases followed by scrubbing out any grime from textured areas with the suggested prep solvent and possibly some sort of brush followed by wiping the entire surface with the suggested solvent. Proper PPE is a must as most of the solvents you will be using are very dangerous without proper protection. This preparation will give the surface a tooth as they call it for the new paint to grab onto. Many times if this step is skipped or done poorly the new paint will not adhere properly which can and does end up causing the paint to fail in various ways. Again proper repair the first time will prevent you from having to repeat the repair a second time down the road.
The final suggestion I have for you is to use YouTube for the methods that I have briefly described here, as there are many good people out there that go through the process of fiberglass repair and painting procedures. A word of caution not everyone on YouTube gives good and proper advice so doing your homework will be a tremendous help.
Good luck and have fun with your repair, as a good repair is always more satisfying than a bad one.
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,069
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Keep in mind that if you plan on using Gelcoat to finalize your repair it will not stick to epoxy well if at all, but that is another subject
This is a myth and its origin is probably due to those who applied gelcoat over poorly prepared epoxy. When epoxy cures it forms a water soluble wax substance known as the amine blush. If this is not removed nothing is going to adhere well to the epoxy. Using Peelply and hot coating, applying a second coat or laminate before the underlying coat is fully cured reduces the blush. Peelply provides a smoother surface to the epoxy, helps retain heat in the curing laminate, and causes the amine blush to form on the peel ply and not the epoxy. The blush is not difficult to remove, a few minutes with a scotchbrite pad and warm water will remove it. Additionally, it is necessary to sand the cured epoxy to ensure there is enough surface for the gelcoat to adhere.

From the West System website:

 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,458
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Lots of great advice above. All I'd add would be I find press and seal to be useful to avoid the drip/sag in many geometries. It does depend upon geometry. One thing I really like is it adheres quite well on it's own so very easy to work with. I don't think epoxy sticks to it either, but I wouldn't really care if it did as it is so thin it would be very easy to just hit with fine sandpaper to remove. I try to avoid drips to have to be sanded on cured epoxy. That stuff is just plain hard to sand...

dj