We are interested in installing a small propane heater on our (new to us) Catalina 310. Considering a Dikinson Cozy Cabin, any thoughts on these heaters? Also having a little trouble finding a path from the propane locker to the bulk head between main cabin and owners berth where it makes since to install. Thank you for any ideas and assistance.
Propane heater
- Thread starter merit25
- Start date
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,330
@merit25 propane heat puts you and crew at risk of carbon monoxide poisoning.
Sailing in the Salish Sea waters, other than during the summer needs to have a significant heater to keep warm. A couple of the electric oil heater or the ceramic heaters can cut the chill but during the winter season the boat will be cold unless you are attached to the marina electricity.
A proper diesel heater will keep your boat warm and your crew happy. This will make sailing year round possible.
Sailing in the Salish Sea waters, other than during the summer needs to have a significant heater to keep warm. A couple of the electric oil heater or the ceramic heaters can cut the chill but during the winter season the boat will be cold unless you are attached to the marina electricity.
A proper diesel heater will keep your boat warm and your crew happy. This will make sailing year round possible.
I appreciate the recommendations to go with a diesel heater. Do either of you have a specific model you prefer?
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,330
The Dickinson Cozy Cabin the OP mentions is vented to the outside (post #5). So, I don’t see it as presenting the risk you describe. It’s an installation. A diesel-fired heater installation could be every bit as much work b/c it might require ducting and would also require outside venting. But one major advantage is that it draws from the boat’s diesel fuel tank. Thus, no separate management of the fuel as would be the case with propane tanks.
BTW. It can be a challenge refilling propane tanks when out on the water. Marine fuel wharfs often do not, at least in So.Cal. For example, nowhere in Newport Beach Harbor, in Port San Luis, in Avalon Harbor, or in Ventura Harbor (places where I’ve recently attempted). You must arrange ground transportation (extra $) to get to a fill station in town, etc.; but Avalon doesn’t have one at all. This should be taken into account as one cannot depend on propane being as available as diesel fuel. You’ll definitely have trouble refilling in remote areas, such as in the BC islands. The popular thing now is “exchange” of tanks that you see about. That is set up for the R/V and home barbeque markets. Large tanks. Too large for convenient use on small sailboats! So, go prepared!
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jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,330
I am mindful of the various views on petroleum based sources of energy. I guess it is a question of what are you attempting to accomplish and how you might follow that journey while providing the environment you desire.
I look for the most efficient power source that transports well, provides the energy needs I desire and will supply these in the varied conditions I intend to travel while minimizing the foot print on the environment.
This is a tall order based on the research I have completed. Nothing is perfect. There are compromises.
For instance. The solid fuel that I know about is often wood stoves. They have a quaint rustic feel. While much better in their current form (wood pellets) the old stoves were terrible on boats. Require a lot of storage for fuel. If the fuel gets wet it is useless. A risk for Carbon Monoxide in the cabin and the open flame requires the cabin oxygen to maintain burning. Often inefficient in their heating ability. Low in heat energy produced to mass of raw material needed. Burning solid fuels contributes to free carbon in the environment.
On a boat, a Diesel furnace, appears to provide the most heat energy production for the least carbon foot print exposure.
I am seduced by the Solar, battery, electric motor propelled idea. But even that system is not a "Carbon" environmentally free system. The batteries are the culprit. What is required to be able to store that solar energy for a limited time is devastating to the environment. I always love to raise my sails. It is getting closer to limiting my impact, but even the sails construction is not free from impact.
So it is pretty much all a series of compromises. Just good to search and find the best for you.
I look for the most efficient power source that transports well, provides the energy needs I desire and will supply these in the varied conditions I intend to travel while minimizing the foot print on the environment.
This is a tall order based on the research I have completed. Nothing is perfect. There are compromises.
For instance. The solid fuel that I know about is often wood stoves. They have a quaint rustic feel. While much better in their current form (wood pellets) the old stoves were terrible on boats. Require a lot of storage for fuel. If the fuel gets wet it is useless. A risk for Carbon Monoxide in the cabin and the open flame requires the cabin oxygen to maintain burning. Often inefficient in their heating ability. Low in heat energy produced to mass of raw material needed. Burning solid fuels contributes to free carbon in the environment.
On a boat, a Diesel furnace, appears to provide the most heat energy production for the least carbon foot print exposure.
I am seduced by the Solar, battery, electric motor propelled idea. But even that system is not a "Carbon" environmentally free system. The batteries are the culprit. What is required to be able to store that solar energy for a limited time is devastating to the environment. I always love to raise my sails. It is getting closer to limiting my impact, but even the sails construction is not free from impact.
So it is pretty much all a series of compromises. Just good to search and find the best for you.
I have both a Dickinson Newport propane and a Planar Diesel heater. The Dickinson keeps the chill out on 40+ days but won’t heat the cabin. The diesel will keep you toasty warm on the coldest days here in the PNW. Propane heaters like the Newport are no more unsafe than a propane stove and don’t put water into the cabin like the stove.
The big drawback of the Newport is you can’t run it while the RIB is on the deck.
Feb of 18 @jssailem and @Ward H went sailing with me on a winter cruise.. much colder than expected. The Planar was belting out heat for a solid week no problems, nice and warm.
The big drawback of the Newport is you can’t run it while the RIB is on the deck.
Feb of 18 @jssailem and @Ward H went sailing with me on a winter cruise.. much colder than expected. The Planar was belting out heat for a solid week no problems, nice and warm.
What’s the carbon credit for the “reuse” of a 42 year old boat instead of buying new? Ar least that’s my excuse to buy used and not new. lol
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,330
I am not sure, but I feel it has to be significant. I bought a 1973 boat. That could be off the charts
.
Yeah. Diesel contains about 40% more BTU per gallon than propane. So at any given fuel flow, diesel will produce more heat.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,330
Sometimes you get forced to play the cards you are dealt.
If your boat came with a propane heater, then you dance with the girl you brought to the party... Or you toss her aside and go find a new girl... No that is not right.
If you are going to use propane it only makes sense that you properly install the unit, you regularly inspect the system and you have, on board and functioning, Carbon Monoxide Alarms that have been annually serviced. That way in the event you experience a CO issue in the middle of the night, you are awoken by the alarm.
It is as important as an anchor alarm, maybe more.
If your boat came with a propane heater, then you dance with the girl you brought to the party... Or you toss her aside and go find a new girl... No that is not right.
If you are going to use propane it only makes sense that you properly install the unit, you regularly inspect the system and you have, on board and functioning, Carbon Monoxide Alarms that have been annually serviced. That way in the event you experience a CO issue in the middle of the night, you are awoken by the alarm.
It is as important as an anchor alarm, maybe more.
I agree. With a properly installed, maintained system with appropriate sensing, propane is in line with other fuels. Propane gets a lot of heat on this forum (right and wrong). I don’t see a lot of heat given to gasoline engines/ gasoline vapor. I wonder if it stems from the onset of CNG and those switching over going to bat for it and trying to increase its popularity.
The “heat” as you call it typically comes from an inadequate introduction from an OP as to what is to be done. So, members may assume a poorly thought out application, and waive off the propane idea on general principles. But in this case, the OP said what unit he wished to install. A check of the product website reveals that it is a vented unit, and that was first pointed out in post #5. So, no good reason from a CO safety point of view not to do it if the bottle/tank is installed properly. But, nevertheless, propane CAN explode and set the boat afire, whereas diesel almost certainly cannot regardless of how it is handled. Just one more of the many risks of boating that can be avoided, etc. This is also mentioned with respect to gasoline vapors.
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