Cracked liner after keel strike

[ranmanca20]

In late July on a passage from Long Beach to Ventura, we struck an underwater object on our Beneteau 423 just north of Point Dume. (Rock, sunken boat, whale? We never saw the object before we struck it or after. We were in 25 feet of water at the time.) Although no water entered, there were obvious cracks, both between port and starboard and along the edge of the port and starboard sides. The cracks are both vertical and horizontal and are along the raised stringers that run from port to starboard in a section of the liner just ahead of the Volvo engine and just behind the most forward keel bolts.

We put in to the first available harbor, Channel Islands, and hauled out the boat two days later, where it has been since.

The boatyard that hauled the boat is unsure of how or if it can make the repairs and the insurance company, Progressive, is considering a constructive total loss as the boatyard is suggesting that the entire hull liner will have to be removed just to determine the extent of the damage and undertake repairs.

Although the boat is from 2004, we had only just purchased it in June and had already put another $18k into new rigging, paint, engine upgrades, etc.

We are hearing different messages from boatyards and marine surveyors as to whether repairs are possible so I would appreciate hearing from the Beneteau community about this. We have agreed value insurance so if the boat is totaled we'll get back what we paid for the boat, but probably not the additional amount we spent on repairs and upgrades. We searched for a long time for the right Beneteau for us and we're heartsick at the possible loss of a boat we love and the need to start all over again in searching for the right boat.

I've attached some internal and external photos of the damage. Is a repair possible that will make the boat seaworthy? Does the entire liner and, hence, all internal structures of the cabin, need to be removed to even assess the damage? Are there yards, say in San Diego, that might be better equipped to carry out such repairs? If repairs are possible, but the boat is totaled by insurance, should we consider buying back the boat and undertaking repairs at a qualified yard to try to recoup as much of our expenditures to upgrade the boat as possible?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[smokey73]

I don't know what you paid for your boat and what your agreed upon coverage was but you need to consider that any repairs will probably impact your ability to sell the boat at some later date, should you chose to do so. Would you have bought the boat for the price you paid for it if it had the repairs you are contemplating have to be done? A prospective buyer in the future will have some "concerns" about the quality of the repair if they are not really familiar with the type of damage and the adequacy of the repair. If you decide to go the buy back route be sure to document details including pictures to demonstrate the adequacy of the repair.

 

[Mechone]

Totally repairable and will actually make the boat stronger than when it left the factory. Mine was done as well as others on this site . The pans of the matrix are cut out , then 1708 is glassed where the pan was and up the sides of the stringer 6 layers . The stringer now becomes 1/2 thicker each side . When I say pans I mean all of the pans some that showed no damaged were not attached to the hull. The pan is then gel coated. The boat also becomes a lot quieter .The boat was hung in slings for a month for this repair . Most of the pans when cut out the glue never touched the hull and the pans were about 3/16 to 1/4 thick ,now 1/2 thick and totally attached to the hull with west epoxy. Total cost 20,000 5 years ago ,your more likely around 30,000 far from a write off.
Go to youtube a couple bought a bigger beneteau and are doing the same repair themselves "Evans Expedition"

 

[ranmanca20]

Thanks for your reply and the cautions. I'm in my '70s and we hopefully have another 10 years or so of sailing in us so this will likely be the last boat we own (please sea gods, no more accidents) and we're less concerned about its resale value 10-15 years from now and more about whether it will be seaworthy for us after it's repaired. We understand that we would have to disclose the structural damage and that it is a salvaged boat when/if we do sell it one day. The fact that we bought the boat from its original owner and that he had maintained it relatively well certainly contributed our willingness to pay the price we did. The calculation we're making is: take the agreed value if the boat is totaled; loose the $20k we already put into the boat; identify another boat we like and use the agreed value to pay for it; assume that we'll have to put another $10-20k into a new-to-us boat. Or, take the agreed value; repair the boat to seaworthiness for some fraction of the agreed value; use it for the next 10-15 years; sell it then. Will what we can get for the boat in the second option worse financially than the first option? Hard to calculate reliably, but it might well be a wash. IF/IF and only IF the boat can be repaired to seaworthiness.

 

[ranmanca20]

Thanks for the optimistic remarks about repairs. I'd really appreciate any photos you have of what was done as part of the problem here in SoCal is that the yards are leery of starting something and discovering it can't be repaired.

 

[shemandr]

Unfortunately your keel struck whatever it was in the worst spot - the front knuckle. Yes that does drive the aft of the keel up cracking the fiberglass bottom and causing a good deal of damage with the tabbing around the keel, evidently with the stringers and you can't be surprised if tabbing around bulkheads have separated or partially separated. The damage could be substantial worse than it looks.
You correctly took the boat to the nearest place to have to hauled. That doesn't mean that is the best place to do the repair. If the yard management even scratches their collective heads about what to do, you need to go somewhere else. Find out who is experienced at this type of repair, and has a great fiberglass guy and go there if you want to do the repair.
If the INSC wants to total the boat I would give it serious thought. Do not buy it back.
Some questions: How fast were you going? Did the boat stop dead? Were people thrown up as well as forward? I noted the keel doesn't seem dented. Is it lead or steel? Lead would have deformed. Steel maybe not.

 

[Mechone]

I had a marine engineer look at it and repair was done by a custom yacht builder from Holland 50 years+ building 50 foot yachts. The Insurance also hired a surveyor , no damage to disclose the boat is better then new and also a yacht broker told me it makes it easier to sell its 10x stronger

 

[sailme88]

Sad to hear and sorry for the position that you are in. If I were a betting man.... I'd say you struck a submerged container.. The leading keel edge looks like it rode up and over..

 

[ranmanca20]

Beneteau uses cast iron keels, which is why it is scraped and not dented. We were motor sailing in terrible seas with a small craft advisory at the time and strong winds right on our bow. We had just ridden up a wave and were descending when we struck whatever the object was. It made a cracking sound, as evidenced by the broken area under the boards, and was violent enough that one of the boards popped out of its position; presumably hit by a piece of fiberglass. The boat shuddered, but did not stop dead in the water. It's not in the photos, but there was no visible damage to the prop or rudder. No water entered the bilge. We were probably motoring about 4-5 knots at the time. None of us were thrown off our feet and were thrown forward rather than up, though not very forcefully. We motored another 4 hours or so until we reached the first available safe harbor.

 

[Bluenose]

I'd take the money and run. And then get a somewhat smaller boat because as you age in the next 10 years, you'll notice a big difference; I did and got a nice B331 - down from an Island Packet 35 at age 68. Life is too short to be mucking around with this boat.

I had that happen to a C&C 32 that I had. The damage was easily accessed and the repair did make it better than new. But a C&C from the 80's is a different boat. You have no idea what kind of issues will arise when repairs are attempted. It could drag on, and you are running out of years!!

Mike Casey
Halifax, Nova Scotia

 

[Davidasailor26]

This just came up in my YouTube feed the other day -

. Sounds similar to the hull condition you describe. They’re 6 episodes in now and at the point of gutting the inside. What they lack in experience they might make up for with enthusiasm. Fun to watch if nothing else. We’ll see what they make of it.

 

[Mechone]

This just came up in my YouTube feed the other day -

. Sounds similar to the hull condition you describe. They’re 6 episodes in now and at the point of gutting the inside. What they lack in experience they might make up for with enthusiasm. Fun to watch if nothing else. We’ll see what they make of it.

I already mentioned it above Expedition Evans

 

[Davidasailor26]

I already mentioned it above Expedition Evans

Indeed you did. My bad.

 

[NYSail]

Ive got a 423 and they are great boats. What you have is a project that I’ve read about that can be done very successfully..... as long as you have the right people doing it. If you don't have that in you, I would strip the boat of what you put into it take the money and find another 423. They are great boats..... nice sailing easily to handle with 2. My wife and I anticipate sailing ours until we die......

Good luck and sorry to hear!!

Greg

 

[ranmanca20]

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies and sympathy. We identified a yard in San Diego, Shelter Island BY, that has experience in this type of grid/structural repair and our insurance will cover shipping the boat by truck there beginning next week. In case there are others, like Expedition Evans, that are dealing with this type of damage, I'll post some pictures and information as the repairs progress. Wish us luck!

 

[arf145]

You certainly have my wishes for luck--and it sounds like you've found the right place so you won't need it! Looking forward to your progress reports.

 

[Bill4931]

Hi there. Any updates on the repair ?

 

[ranmanca20]

Hi. Yes. The repair is well underway. One of the big worries was removing the keel without doing further damage. The wrong way to do it was illustrated by the yard that ripped the keel off of Expedition Evans, mentioned above. Shelter Island yard consulted experts and created an “oven” around the keel that they heated over a day or so. The keel separated with no further damage to the hull. Insurance also agreed to perform a thermal imaging of the hull that found no hidden delamination. Unlike the poor couple in Expedition Evans, SIBY created a cocoon in the saloon and created pressure zones in the fore and aft cabins to contain the gel coat dust that would coat everything otherwise. The fiberglass work has begun and is expected to go on for several weeks at least. Some photos are attached.

 

[Mechone]

Hi. Yes. The repair is well underway. One of the big worries was removing the keel without doing further damage. The wrong way to do it was illustrated by the yard that ripped the keel off of Expedition Evans, mentioned above. Shelter Island yard consulted experts and created an “oven” around the keel that they heated over a day or so. The keel separated with no further damage to the hull. Insurance also agreed to perform a thermal imaging of the hull that found no hidden delamination. Unlike the poor couple in Expedition Evans, SIBY created a cocoon in the saloon and created pressure zones in the fore and aft cabins to contain the gel coat dust that would coat everything otherwise. The fiberglass work has begun and is expected to go on for several weeks at least. Some photos are attached. View attachment 187248

Funny I made a comment on youtube that they should have heated the keel with heat guns to release the 5200 Beneteau uses. I have replaced my own and others thru hulls using a heat gun to release 5200. Mention 5200 and everyone goes nuts . It has its uses especially below the water line and it does not let go and leak.

 

[nightowle]

From experience, I'd say you'll be fine with these repairs now that you've found a reliable yard. I was in the same position a number of years ago sailing outside my usual waters. Similar damage caused me to have the boat pulled at a yard on Vancouver Isl that I had started to have little confidence in. Even though the boat wasn't leaking, the insurance co. would disallow coverage if I brought the boat back to my home port - a motor sail trip of at least 10 hours. I was referred to a highly recommended yard on Vancouver Island only 4 miles from the first one. They towed the boat there and work progressed over several months. I learned a lot in the process and I'm convinced the boat was better than new. One lesson learned though, they gave me a time estimate of the job which I took as when I could expect it to be done. From the beginning, we should have agreed on a date. Why? Because the yard can move their guys onto other projects and leave yours sitting idle. The squeaky wheel gets the oil!