P42 Bimini/Dodger Upgrade to Solar

[HandsOnTech]

My Passage 42 has the small, curved dodger with the short, narrow bimini connected by a zippered strip. Looking at images online, I see most P42’s have a large, square cockpit enclosure. I am guessing that was a factory option. Was the boom higher on those models?

My objective is to modify my cockpit cover to a single flat surface that will accommodate several solar panels.

Any suggestions or drawings you can offer would be much appreciated.

 

[Stephen M]

You can make a hardtop.

 

[HandsOnTech]

Very nice. Is that a factory top or aftermarket or custom? If it was added later, did you use the original mounting points?

What are the black rods? Is it just covered stainless tube or a compression device? What diameter are the tubes? How easy is it to remove for a hurricane?

That is what I am after, but using solar panels as the roofing material.

 

[Stephen M]

I made a mould and the hardtop myself and used the current canopy supports (4 of them) as the mounts. The black rods are actually stainless steel rods with a fabric covering to protect the clear plastic glass. The tubes are 1" diameter. PM me and I can provide more photos on how I connected the fibreglass top to the tubes with truss head bolts and stainless steel clips. I plan to install flexible solar panels to the top at some point. Here is a link to a post I made on the project.

Hardtop for a Hunter 41AC

I am starting to think about building a hardtop for my Hunter 41AC. and am looking for input, pictures, things to watch out for from anyone who has attempted to do this. I know one main consideration is the arch and how to work the top around it. As always thanks in advance for your input

forums.sailboatowners.com

 

[smokey73]

Is it an optical illusion or is the boom "canted up" much more than normal? I"m not familiar with the Passage 42 set up. Since the roller furling is a loose footed main maybe it doesn't make any difference.

 

[Stephen M]

The boom is "Canted up" more then normal. I added a gas strut inside the rigid boom vang this past winter and when the boom vang is relaxed, the boom is higher.

 

[HandsOnTech]

Here is my thinking to this point.

Start with the frame of the roof. The width will be determined by being able to walk comfortably on deck without having to lean around the roof. My initial estimate is 7’ to 7.5’ wide.
The frame could provide a handhold railing. Will the structure be rigid enough for that?
The length is defined by the traveler on the arch aft and the boom vang connection point on the boom forward. I estimate 8’.
The frame would be constructed of 1” SS tube with 90 degree fittings.
The solar panels (4 x ~2’x4’) would be mounted with length forward/aft and as far abeam as possible to avoid shading by the boom. The panels would be mounted forward and aft to the 1” tube and two additional lateral 1” tubes would be mounted with sliding T fittings to support the other end of each panel.
I will lose the ability to simply fold away the bimini as I do now. Is there a gotcha I may be missing?
How to rigidly attach this 1” frame to the arch?
Comments?
Thanks

 

[HandsOnTech]

Today’s Update:
I spoke to a fellow down the road who makes biminis, T-tops, etc. the material he primarily works with is anodized aluminum tube. He can fabricate the tube top I described above (7’x8’) for $350. The drawback is that it would all be welded and therefore permanent dimensions. I called the stainless supplier in Miami to ask about anodized aluminum tube. One inch SS is about $5 per foot when purchasing full lengths of 24 feet. They only carry the AA in 7/8” and it runs about $2 per foot in 20’ lengths. The advantage of 7/8” is that I can reuse most of the existing fittings.

Wish I had researched this years ago instead of living with this bimini that is six inches shorter than I am.

 

[HandsOnTech]

A few design questions:

1) What material do I use to fill the gap between the panels? Clear or opaque?
2) Which way do I want the rain to run off at the dock? Do I cant it forward or aft or leave it flat?
3) Since the wire path through the arch tube is full with speaker and cockpit light wires, how do I route the solar cables down? Standard grey electrical fittings from arch box into deck, or does someone have a more elegant method?

 

[HandsOnTech]

Here is the first try. I found that mocking it up with 3/4” PVC was worth the time and effort. It only takes a moment to snip it to size and pop the fittings on. I did not glue them. Going a little long on the initial dimensions made it easy to snip off bits later. This gave me the ability to check dimensions and get a feel for ergonomics, such as hand holds, cockpit access and protecting sharp corners.

My original idea was to attach the panels to the arch. Unfortunately, they are too close to the shadow of the boom.

As you can see, I had to tie the PVC to the boom to support the 25lb panels. It gets quite soft in the hot sun.

 

[senang]

There will always be the shadow of the boom, it will be SB, Port or center depending on the position of your boat. Since you cannot erase the shadow, plan for it, you could fit 3 panels to compensate for the shadow.

 

[HandsOnTech]

I was considering using a third identical panel in the center for cosmetic reasons.

 

[HandsOnTech]

Also, keep in mind that the sun is closer to overhead at the 25th parallel and below than say the 49th.

 

[Paul Cossman]

Hi HandsOn, I figured I'd just shoot you some quick pictures of what we did on our P42 for solar panel mounts. We mounted them to the top of the bimini. I had some stainless steel tubes configured and then drilled and bolted onto the sides of those tubes some angle aluminum. Plenty strong enough, and it provides some handholds going forward and aft along the outboard sides of the cockpit. We just pull the boom off to one side or the other and we get sunlight on the panels most all day long. Our energy needs are rather meager, so we get pretty much all the power we want from our panels; in fact, so much so that I removed the wind generator, and very rarely have to run our generator (a 5 HP Kubota diesel with a high output alternator attached to it). I've been extremely happy with this setup. And it was quite easy to do.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[HandsOnTech]

Thank you Paul. Exactly the kind of ideas I am looking for. I entered this project with zero bimini building experience, driven by the objective of mounting four solar panels over the cockpit. What hampered the exercise was my design attempt to mount the panels to the existing bimini/dodger structure. Mine was the compact ‘sports model’ and was just not suited to creating a large, flat roof.

I am reminded of a comedy skit from decades ago where the objective was to turn a VW Beetle into a Porsche. The gist was that they examined each part (wheels, seats, etc.), determined that it did not look anything like the Porsche part and tossed it. The result was that they ended up with nothing left and started building a Porsche out of Porsche parts. It took a while, mostly due to my lack of experience working with tubing, but i finally came to the same realization. I pulled all ten pins, removed the existing bimini and dodger structures, and started from scratch.

I expect to mount the panels tomorrow and will post photos.

I plan to run the pair of 8 gauge wires down the forward, port support post and in through the air scoop. So far i have the wires through the scoop and appearing at the nearest access port in the ceiling. This is probably a P42 specific question, but I am running into some difficulty fishing the wires from that port (above the right side of the nav station) to the shelf above the electrical breaker panel. It is only a two foot run, but the path is eluding me. Ideas here would be appreciated, as with any other component of this project.

The objective is to get the cables at the top right to the Victron controller at bottom left.

 

[HandsOnTech]

Paul, I see your panels are mounted laterally. I assume they are wired in parallel to reduce the effect of a shaded panel on the overall system output. My thinking is that if they are mounted longitudinally, the mast or boom will shade one side or the other, leaving 300 of the 600 watts fully exposed. Comments? Experience?

How many watts are your panels rated at and what is your experience with actual wattage delivered?

 

[Paul Cossman]

Hi again HandsOn,
Very happy to be of any assistance! And I like your skit (especially since I owned VW vans and bugs for the first ten years of my driving experience and rebuilt the engines more than a couple of times.

I've never run any wires through the spot you are looking at, so unfortunately I'm of no help there. I ran all of my solar panel wires through the already existing wire feed that starts up at the port side stereo speaker (on the arch) and runs down through that arch pipe. It terminates at the access hole that is forward-most on the port side of the aft cabin. I then ran the wires from there (between the deck and the headliner with other wires) to a hole I drilled, and then on to the Blue Sky solar controller that I mounted right on the bulkhead. I STILL plan to clean up those wires and make it all pretty (someday). I would have loved to put the controller in the engine compartment, but I know they don't like heat.

Good luck with your project!!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Paul Cossman]

Paul, I see your panels are mounted laterally. I assume they are wired in parallel to reduce the effect of a shaded panel on the overall system output. My thinking is that if they are mounted longitudinally, the mast or boom will shade one side or the other, leaving 300 of the 600 watts fully exposed. Comments? Experience?

How many watts are your panels rated at and what is your experience with actual wattage delivered?

Yes, they are wired in parallel. I have found over time that the boom rarely shades the panels at all. When I'm at my berth I pull the boom to the side and there is no shading. At anchor I just adjust accordingly and we do fine. It generally puts out all the power we need. (I ought to include here that our average electrical needs are about 125 amp-hours per 24 hour period. The panels regularly provide all we need over a three-to-five-day anchoring period until we motor out of the anchorage to a new place.

I really don't remember the ratings for the panels, but I can probably find that info somewhere. Right now we're provisioning and preparing for a 50 mile passage tomorrow (to Great Barrier Island), so I'm a bit too busy to look that up right now. But soon. And I also don't know what wattage is actually delivered other than what I noted above. But for long periods of the day when it's sunny we'll get 15-16 amps coming into the battery bank. I couldn't be happier with the setup.

Like you, I originally wanted a third panel. But after I ran with the double panel setup for a bit I realized I had no need for it. As it is my generator is (figuratively) mothballed. My experience was the same when cruising the tropics (Tonga/Fiji/Vanuatu) or cruising New Zealand.

Cheers

 

[HandsOnTech]

As promised, here is the second prototype. The two forward panels are Newpowa mono 150w and the aft panels are HQST 150w poly. Price was equal, and I wanted to see if there was any difference. So far the biggest difference is the number of mounting holes. I will have to drill the Newpowa because it only has three holes on each long side and none on the short edges.

There is some sag in the middle and I am thinking that a slight upward curve in the lateral tubes should help.

Just got the electrical patched together last night. At an hour and a half after sunrise this morning I was getting over 100 watts and charging at 7 amps for “free”. Yes, I know, many of you are thinking, “Next he’ll discover indoor plumbing”. It’s still a kick to see it in real life (i.e. our life) for the first time.

 

[HandsOnTech]

Here are some other ideas for building a solar panel structure. Certainly more elaborate than I am going for.

Someone should tell him it is easier to hold the tube and rotate the cutter.