Packing nuts question

[Steve L22188]

I've developed a slow drip around the packing nuts - was surprised to find a bilge full of water today when I got to the boat. I'm hoping I can simply tighten the nut, but didn't have a big enough wrench today when I discovered the drip/leak. May need to repack it - hope not.

It's been 10 years since I've messed with this and I have a very stupid question. The big nut is nearest the motor - I suspect it needs to be tightened a bit. Does the large nut tighten by turning clockwise? (I've learned asking a stupid question is often a good practice - assuming something often gets me in trouble.)

The smaller nut aft...does it tighten counter clockwise? Feel silly asking this, but thought it wouldn't hurt.

I'm thinking I'm going to need a pipe wrench - my vise grips wouldn't open/grip enough. Or is there a special wrench you might suggest for the serrated nut?

Thanks in advance.

 

[dlochner]

Both nuts should be standard right hand thread.

Big wrenches are necessary. One of them will probably need to be narrow, a sink wrench may work.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-3-in-Adjustable-Wrench/1000668475

 

[capta]

The nut closest to the engine is a lock nut. Once you have tightened the other one so the packing is only dripping a few drops a minute, you bring the lock nut up to the packing nut and holding the packing nut with one wrench, you tighten the lock nut with another wrench upon the packing nut. This keeps the packing nut from backing off and allowing the gland to leak.

 

[Rich Stidger]

The nut closest to the engine is a lock nut. Once you have tightened the other one so the packing is only dripping a few drops a minute, you bring the lock nut up to the packing nut and holding the packing nut with one wrench, you tighten the lock nut with another wrench upon the packing nut. This keeps the packing nut from backing off and allowing the gland to leak.

I think you have the nuts interchanged. The closest to the engine is the packing nut. After backing off the other nut (typically narrower) the packing nut on the end is adjusted and then the locking nut is tightened per your description.

As for a source of wrenches, I have a couple of the Irwin 3" wrenches mentioned above by dlochner. They work, sort of. I find that if the nuts are really tight, the handles are not long enough to get enough torque to loosen them. And the jaws don't hold an adjustment very well either.

I went to Harbor Freight and bought two 24" adjustable wrenches. They work like a charm! $25 each, but they make the job super simple!

 

[Justin_NSA]

I thought this was going to be a FedEx or UPS question

 

[Justin_NSA]

I think you have the nuts interchanged. The closest to the engine is the packing nut. After backing off the other nut (typically narrower) the packing nut on the end is adjusted and then the locking nut is tightened per your description.

As for a source of wrenches, I have a couple of the Irwin 3" wrenches mentioned above by dlochner. They work, sort of. I find that if the nuts are really tight, the handles are not long enough to get enough torque to loosen them. And the jaws don't hold an adjustment very well either.

I went to Harbor Freight and bought two 24" adjustable wrenches. They work like a charm! $25 each, but they make the job super simple!

View attachment 183214

I bought one of those and a matching pipe wrench from HF for my exhaust elbow. Now it's for home security.

 

[capta]

I think you have the nuts interchanged. The closest to the engine is the packing nut. After backing off the other nut (typically narrower) the packing nut on the end is adjusted and then the locking nut is tightened per your description.

Well, I guess it's about which one you are familiar with. I probably should have said narrower nut, but I've never owned one with the lock nut toward the engine. The different one is what we have now.

 

[Benny17441]

I went to Harbor Freight and bought two 24" adjustable wrenches. They work like a charm! $25 each, but they make the job super simple!

Now that is impressive, but a couple of cheap pipe wrenches will do the job. I cannot think for what other jobs I would need a 24" adjustable wrench for and much less why I would need two. I had to replace a hitch ball the other day and the nut was 1 3/4" and my largest wrench was 1 1/2" so I brought out my cheap pipe wrench and a pin ball hammer and they got the job done. Key chain maybe?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

@capta , are you saying you now have this industrial type of gland assembly?

I would give my eye teeth to be able to find a 1" dia. gland seal like this for my 1" prop shaft. They are only available for 1-1/4" dia. and up. The typical nut type gland with which we are all familiar, is a cheap piece of $#^%&*@# crap which has been foisted on to the unsuspected boating community. I have seen at least a zillion industrial pump packing glands and they were all of the proper sliding gland type shown above. In half a century of wandering through industrial plants, I never saw one piece of the marine type sh!t . Today, most of the glands are now of the mechanical seal type. I can definitely remember some pump shafts that were less than 1" dia. The nut type gland is a bugger to pack and the interior threads of the nut chew up the packing material in the process. In the industrial gland, the bottom of the sliding gland is bevelled in order to compress the packing in towards the shaft.



How this rip off was established in the first place is a mystery indeed. Even if the sliding gland takes up more space, screw it. Design the boats to accept the larger gland as the nut type gland is such a piece of garbage. I don't care what the additional cost of the sliding type gland is, it's worth it because of the crap quality the nut type gland is.

There, said it but I don't feel any better .

 

[capta]

Yes, but our shaft is 1 3/4".
Sometimes things like this can be had at the used chandleries. I get a photo and begin a Google search for the used chandleries, sending emails to every one I can get an email address for. Good luck.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Yes, but our shaft is 1 3/4".

Some people have all the luck !

I can see myself paying up to $1K for a proper 1" dia. industrial type gland. And then the cost pulling of the shaft on top. BUT IT WOULD BE WORTH EVERY PENNY just to get rid of this piece of crap.

I've searched for almost 20 years, since I bought the boat new, and never found a 1" dia.

Live in hope, die in despair .

 

[capta]

Good luck.

 

[jnorten]

Two of these came with my boat: Home Depot Adjustable Plumber's Wrench.

Some warn that these will be finicky, and this is true. But the price cannot be beat, and once I dialed in the size and locked them snug at this size I haven't had to adjust. Catalina Direct does sell a very specialized wrench that looks to work great BUT it's very $$$.

FYI--

The two nuts that make up my stuffing box seem to be slightly different size. I don't know if yours will be similar.

Really if the access to your stuffing box is at least mediocre, then you CAN do this. Even wide open, the water flow into the bilge is NOT a problem....use the cheap Harbor Freight dental picks to get out the old stuffing. Pre-cut new stuffing by wrapping it around a 1" stanchion and cut to size (assuming you have a 1" prop shaft). Google this process so that you make the correct angled cut in the stuffing material so that the two cut ends compress against each other properly when tightened. You have options as to traditional stuffing material and/or newer teflon impregnated stuff etc. Again, read up via Google. Main Sail also did a really nice stuffing box thing....

You can do this.

 

[Stu Jackson]

The two nuts that make up my stuffing box seem to be slightly different size. I don't know if yours will be similar.

In addition, I found my lock nut to have two different widths depending on what side is facing "up" or can be accessed.
Most folks have horrible access to their stuffing boxes.
I don't.
But I found the least expensive way to deal with this is to find out what fits, and then go buy a BIG honkin' combo wrench and cut it in half. Like this in the photo. The one on the right is a standard stuffing box wrench that didn't really work too well on the lock nut.
The stuffing box itself rarely needs a whole lot of persuasion, so one of those really cheap adjustable things is OK on that. Once the lock nut is backed away from the stuffing box nut, the box nut should usually be able to be turned by hand. Gee, that's why the lock nut is there in the first place.
Good luck.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Here's my stuffing box article, with links to Maine Sail and Ralph Johnstone's excellent posts on this very forum:

Tech Wiki – Catalina 34 International Association

 

[shemandr]

The nut closest to the engine is a lock nut. Once you have tightened the other one so the packing is only dripping a few drops a minute, you bring the lock nut up to the packing nut and holding the packing nut with one wrench, you tighten the lock nut with another wrench upon the packing nut. This keeps the packing nut from backing off and allowing the gland to leak.

This seems correct to me. Not sure what Rich is saying. The packing nut couldn't be outside the locking nut. Unless I'm nuts?
I've used the plumbing style drain wrench for my packing gland. The problem for me with the plumber's pipe wrench was that it was so wide. The packing gland nuts are thin and eventually close together. You can use a pipe wrench or large crescent wrench for one but it's hard to get the second one in there - at least on my Hunter. The two nuts on my Hunter were different sizes. The larger one was against the gland and the smaller was a lock nut against the larger - as I remember.
Re the design inadequacies of the whole system - well, boatbuilders watch expenses and traditional boatbuilders have used this system for generations. That doesn't make it the best way but ..... it is an accepted and mostly successful method.

 

[capta]

While we are talking about packing, there is a tool expressly made to remove the old packing from the gland. See below.

No need to go digging around in there with a pick. In an emergency, you might use this to open a bottle of wine, too.

 

[Stu Jackson]

While we are talking about packing, there is a tool expressly made to remove the old packing from the gland. See below.
View attachment 183256
No need to go digging around in there with a pick. In an emergency, you might use this to open a bottle of wine, too.

Most of us here on sbo have 1" shafts. There is not a single one of those tools, even the smallest one, that work on 3/16" or 1/4" stuffing. There is simply not enough room for even the smallest one of those ever made to work.
That's why we use other means to get the old stuff out of the box. And is discussed in my article linked in Reply #15.
Please don't waste your money on one.

Those with BIGGER boats, like capta's (a 53 footer) could find one that would work.

 

[jaysweet]

I went to Harbor Freight and bought two 24" adjustable wrenches. They work like a charm! $25 each, but they make the job super simple!

While Rich's wrenches are quite impressive , if you find you don't have quite that much room down below (so to speak), try this one:

Ares 53mm Stubby Adjustable Wrench

which you can google. I bought one to use on the thin locking nut, and love it. I just use some water pump pliers on the big ole packing nut itself. I've tried (and broken) the sink wrenches before. I really hate them. The Ares wrench does have a small handle, but you can always use a bit of pipe if you need more leverage, and/or if you have enough room. Once you get a setup that works for you, you won't need to ignore it for 10 years (which I fully understand, as most of us prefer sailing to standing on our heads herniating ourselves in the bilge).

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

But I found the least expensive way to deal with this is to find out what fits, and then go buy a BIG honkin' combo wrench and cut it in half

You bin lookin' in ma toolbox ?

That's exactly what I've done. I had previously managed to break two of the cast pewter sink wrenches and enough was too much. If memory serves me right, the packing nut is 1-1/4" while the lock nut is 1-1/8". Finally saw the combo wrenches go on sale for $12 ea. at a local tool supplier. Had been around $24 ea.

No damage to either of the two nuts with the rock solid open ends of the combo wrench. Pump pliers and pipe wrenches eventually wear and tear the edges off both nuts. I play with the gland so much, the both would have been rounded off by now.