Sails - Open Discussion

[drewlamparello]

I don't seem to recall seeing many of you discussing sail replacements on the 275. I'm sure you have as the fleet is upwards of 7 years old... But at least with a topic devoted to Sails we can have a place for our collective opinions.

My 2017 version is in need. 2 and a half years in a School fleet in the Floridian sun has made them appear to be 8 to 10 years old. The main has poor shape. Suffice it to say they need to be replaced. But with what. I know if price was no issue then folks would simply get the most high tech fabric. Price is an issue buts its more than that. Let's face it fancy black sails may look sexy but will they really improve performance that much. Went this rout with North Mylar on my Capri and while it helped a bit was hardly worth double the expense. Plus Norths 3DI says the Jib isn't structured to reef, what's that about... Must be an option they didn't quote.

Don't take offense but it felt like lip stick on a Pig for the Capri and I feel that way with the 275. To that end as expected Norths High end turned out about double Mack's quote that I've received. But Norths low end is only about 20% more than Mack...

Then there is how I use the boat, sure I do the beer can races but mostly its a nice day sailor for me with a infrequent visit to the ocean to ether distance race or fish. Plus I'm having a Bimini and a small dodger installed, the Carolina Sun is a killer. As I said I'm really a day based cruiser. So why care about new sails, this boat is driven by the main, its poor shape seems to make it have excessive heel.

So I've gotten four quotes with many options to each. In all of them I asked for 3 sails to be priced, a Zero, a 106 jib with a leach cover and the 3 vertical battens and a main with 2 reefs and full battens. Why now, well the sail lofts are giving 20% off their sails to try and get folks who aren't sailing to get off the dime and invest.

As sailors you always have opinions... So I'm dropping this note to solicit yours as I try and wade through this jumble of facts and figures...

The fabrics and lofts
Evolution: Main and or Jib Fabric: Cross Cut Dimension-Polant AP280 or Dimension - Polant Flex Sport LS11 or Rti Radial Demension - Polant Carbon Sport LS 10 - Zero Di,emsion - Polant CZ05 - Low Price is 6K High 7K

North: Main and or Jib Frabic: 3Di Ocean (Nordac) ( For Jib not structured for Reefing) or NPC Cross Cur Nordac ND64ha Zero 75% SMG NPL Code X1 X104 CD or MaxiKote MK 200P 2.13 oz - Low price 5.3 to 8.1K

Mack Sails: Main and or Jib Fabric: 6.62 oz Challenge Marblehead Premium Dacron - Code Zero 1.5 oz Nylon true radial Price: 4.1K

Precesion: Main and or Jib Fabric: Precision 300 Series Designer Dacron, Precision 400 Series Advanced Dacron, Precision Tri-Radial Dacron Series , Precision 500 Series Elite Dacron, Never did get a Zero quote and the Jib they quoted was a 115, so I just thew them in to see what a factory like this would charge... frankly for the main and jib they are just 300 less than Mack... so I'm likely tossing them out

I've asked Ulman but never got a response


Why this Group: Mack I've purchased from numerous time over the past 25 years and North and Evolution have lofts here in Charleston...

 

[PMK]

I'm on my 3rd season with a 3Di NoDac 106% jib from North. It has great shape and is still looking great. I was offered no caution to not reef this sail. In fact, North installed two short vertical stripes on the foot, near the tack, in order to be able to mark reef positions. At the time of my purchase, the fabric was not called "Ocean". Perhaps it is now a lighter construction and hence not recommended to be reefed? I would not want a 3Di NorDac Main. The material is very stiff and would likely be difficult to routinely flake.

I'll likely purchase a new main over the winter and my top choice right now is a North Radial cut NorDac sail. I'm not sure about full length battens. They make it difficult to flatten the sail and in light wind, hang up on the backstay. It would be nice if the top "flicker" functioned better, but the wire backstay is too heavy and should be replaced by a light weight line. I am however a bit concerned about the shorter battens ability to support the full roach of the sail. If shorter lower battens mean a lose in sail area, then I would go with the full length battens.

Has anyone purchased a new asymmetrical spinnaker? And if so, did you get a size / cut different from the all purpose chute supplier with the boat? I find this sail is great for reaching in light air, but not so good in medium air at deeper wind angles. I think that the luff is not as full as it can be so that it can be more readily furled. I don't furl my spin. We hoist from the bag and drop down the main hatch. While I'm thinking about it, any owners who gibes their spin between the tack and the forestay (inside gibe) I'm sure have had the problem of the sail snagging and hanging up on the bow light. Has any owner replaced this light with one this is recessed and not an obstacle to the spin?

 

[drewlamparello]

3rd season with a 3Di NoDac 106% jib from North. It has great shape and is still looking great. I was offered no caution to not reef this sail.

Given North prices the 3di about 35% more than its cross cut NorDac would you say the difference is warrented?

 

[PMK]

For a genoa from North, I recommend you consider either the 3Di or NorDac Radian. You will definitely get better sail shape and performance from either of these compared to a cross cut paneled sail. When I bought my sail 2 years ago, the price of a 3Di sail was only a very small amount more than a Radian sail. Cross cut NorDac is better used for the main than for the genoa.

 

[drewlamparello]

For a genoa from North, I recommend you consider either the 3Di or NorDac Radian. You will definitely get better sail shape and performance from either of these compared to a cross cut paneled sail. When I bought my sail 2 years ago, the price of a 3Di sail was only a very small amount more than a Radian sail. Cross cut NorDac is better used for the main than for the genoa.

north price difference quoted for the jib even after their 20% off discount is 1200 vs 2200 currently. Not sure you would consider that a "small amount"

 

[SteveLKN]

[

Precesion: Main and or Jib Fabric: Precision 300 Series Designer Dacron, Precision 400 Series Advanced Dacron, Precision Tri-Radial Dacron Series , Precision 500 Series Elite Dacron, Never did get a Zero quote and the Jib they quoted was a 115,


[/QUOTE]

I'd like to see how they plan to put a 115% without hitting the spreaders!

 

[Codybear]

I would love to hear advice and tips on rigging and using the Asym!

I've moved this discussion from "calling" to here.

Don't worry, things will happen with rigging the asym, but you'll eventually learn not to repeat the mistakes. My biggest suggestion is consistency. Try to rig in a consistent order and derig in the reverse order. This is to mostly control having an inside sheet instead of accidentally ending up with an outside sheet (one sheet in front of the asym). My wife made a rectangular bag for me, so I keep the starboard sheet in the front starboard corner. The port sheet in the rear port corner. The tack and furler line are last in, first out. Try to prevent the head from getting on either side of a sheet when pulling out of the bag. If you end up with an outside sheet, just disconnect the lazy sheet and run it back around the front of the asym.

I'm experimenting with about 14-16" of foam tubing, rubber taped to the top of the torsional cable, to speed up the start of the furling. On the one time I've used it, it worked fine, but I need more tries to verify if it makes a difference.

 

[drewlamparello]

IMO Furling an asym with out issue really has more to do with the sail than the furling rig... I have 3 chutes and a zero. The Zero never back raps, the Flattest of the Asyms furls with out an issue all the time, now that I have like you added a luff covering to the torque line (I used Wiffle golf balls), but one of my kites, the old Tryraidal from my Old 27, Flys great but every other time it back wraps so bad that you have to manually unwrap it on the ground... I think it has too much camber
As to the largest chute I have, it has less camber but if I deploy that I have crew and simply pull it out of the companion way bag...

 

[Froudy]

Thanks for the advice and I think practice has been the key and also furling then jibing and then unfurling has also been more effective! I have been having a great season, one thing that really changed things up was swapping the self tacking jib out for the 106, it made a huge difference. My question is has anyone gone any bigger than a 106? Guessing the tracks on the cabin won’t be enough? I think I saw a 275 for sale that had deck mounted tracks and addition winches in reach of the tiller. Anyone tried anything in this space? Anyways still loving my 275!

 

[drewlamparello]

Thanks for the advice and I think practice has been the key and also furling then jibing and then unfurling has also been more effective! I have been having a great season, one thing that really changed things up was swapping the self tacking jib out for the 106, it made a huge difference. My question is has anyone gone any bigger than a 106? Guessing the tracks on the cabin won’t be enough? I think I saw a 275 for sale that had deck mounted tracks and addition winches in reach of the tiller. Anyone tried anything in this space? Anyways still loving my 275!

Agree on both points the chute requires practice and the 106 is great. I have one and fly it off the Cabin top blocks. The Jib has four battens in it so it basically flies just ahead of the Spreader at that point but does sheet down hard to the cabin top blocks with plenty of adjustment to control twist. I'm waiting on the replacement 106 I ordered in July and as the current sail is serviceable plan on having the sail maker cut it down so I can fly it off the self tacker when I'm lazy or the wind is piping

 

[Froudy]

Sounds good - so if i understood that right you are going to modify a 106 so that you can fly it off the self tacker? That sounds like a cool plan. I would love to learn more about that. Personally I sail single handed at least 60% of the time and that would be an interesting option. Having said that the combination of a Battlestick tiller extension and a tiller lock box allows me tack/jibe and then deal with the jib afterwards. Credit to Ed the previous owner for that setup.. will be replacing this winter as i sat on it by accident and its never been quite the same since!

 

[drewlamparello]

Can't wait to go out and use this new jib from Evolution... Its a Dimension Polyant Carbon Sport jib

 

[Froudy]

That is a beautiful looking sail!!! I cant wait to hear feedback on how it behaves. Is it really a 106? it looks bigger... anyways congrats on the acquisition of a wonderful thing!

 

[drewlamparello]

That is a beautiful looking sail!!! I cant wait to hear feedback on how it behaves. Is it really a 106? it looks bigger... anyways congrats on the acquisition of a wonderful thing!

Supposed to be a 106, but if pulled taught it does just touch the shroud... wasn't supposed to.

 

[PMK]

Has anyone replaced their full battened original equipment main with a partial batten main? If so, let us know how you like your new main. I am shopping for a new main (50% racing, 40% performance day sailing/race practice), 10% cruising/day sailing). With moderate roach of the main, some sail manufacturers recommend 2 full + 3 partial battens, others recommend staying with all full battens. Of those owners that race or are looking for max performance, are you sailing with a new main with partial battens? If so, I expect that you find performance much better than the OEM main. Let us know your experiences.

 

[drewlamparello]

Has anyone replaced their full battened original equipment main with a partial batten main? If so, let us know how you like your new main. I am shopping for a new main (50% racing, 40% performance day sailing/race practice), 10% cruising/day sailing). With moderate roach of the main, some sail manufacturers recommend 2 full + 3 partial battens, others recommend staying with all full battens. Of those owners that race or are looking for max performance, are you sailing with a new main with partial battens? If so, I expect that you find performance much better than the OEM main. Let us know your experiences.

Just replaced my original UK sail, that wasn't an OEM sail, that had a Top Full Gaff abd next down as full. Rest were partial with a new Full Batten North... Haven't been able to really try it out as its been blowing so hard needed to use the first reef... I have a preference for full battens and needing po feather the main was much more controlled this weekend in the Puffs (near 20+) than the Partial was

 

[PMK]

What sail material did you get? 3Di NorDac, NPC cross cut, NPC radian, or something else? I am considering an NPC radian sail. Do you know if the North sail designer was Rich Bowen? He is located in Charleston. Let me know if you continue to like the full battens. I have a couple of weeks to decide.

 

[drewlamparello]

The Main is a North Cross Cut Nor Dac. It was John Bowden who handled the transaction. Really good to deal with. The sail turned out to be a bit off and needed adjustment, the day I mentioned it he took the sail, fixed it and had it back the next day.
Had it out twice now, the first time was in near 20 knts so needed to reef it and feather it a real lot, really happy I went with the full battens. This weekend I did the double hander in light air and it really showed how much better it pointed and performed from what it was previously.

 

[Froudy]

Hi all,
I am looking for any thoughts, advice or experience on the use of a code 0 on the 275. What I have learned in my season one is that for two or three months of the season we get a lot of light air days. I switched from the self tacker to the 106 and that made a big difference. The asym works nice on light days from a broad to beam reach. I was wondering if the code zero would help with some of the upwind work?

 

[drewlamparello]

I've had a Zero on a furler on both my Capri 22 and now on my 275. I really like its versality. I can fly it from about 130 up to about 55 degrees as such just got a new one for the 275 last month... So you can't climb upwind as you can with the 106, but in light air I'd rather be moving with the Zero than sitting still fighting the current but pointing better.