Catalina 22 won't turn at low speeds

[IASailor]

I was sailing today on Red Rock reservoir south of Des Moines and had a great day. However I noticed that when the boat was moving slowly due to lack of wind the steering was way off. I had to put the tiller almost all the way over just to stay on course. When the wind speed and boat speed picked up, I would bring the tiller back to center to stay on course.

The boat in question is a 1977 Catalina 22. Any information is helpful. I welcome all opinions, I need the help!

A few facts: the keel was all the way down and the outboard motor was pointed straight ahead so as not to affect the steering. The kick up rudder was also all the way down.

What could be causing is?

 

[garymalmgren]

Hi IA
Steerage means that a boat is traveling fast enough for the rudder to do its job.
In your case you didn't have steerage.

Here is a simplified explanation. I have omitted a couple of points for clarity.

Imagine that you are moving straight forward (dead ahead)at a reasonable speed.
Imagine the underwater, water flow past your keel and rudder.
The flow will be the same on each side and flow past the keel and rudder with little resistance.

Now, imagine what happens when you move the tiller to port.
The rear of the rudder will move to starboard.
The flow of water coming down the starboard side, meets the resistance of the rudder and pushes the stern of the boat to port.
The bow will move across to the starboard and you are turning.

If you are not moving (fast enough), there will not be enough water (pressure) flowing under the boat and meeting the rudder.
It will eddy slowly around the rudder (resistance) and you will continue on your merry way, dead ahead.

Now, back to one of the omitted points.
The bow will move across to the starboard.
When the bow swings across, the water is not flowing past it equally on each side.
It is, in fact meeting resistance on the port side of the bow and pushing it across to starboard.

So, the rudder pushes the stern across. The bow meets resistance and pushes the bow across in a turn.
This all can only happen if you have steerage.

gary

 

[dlochner]

Gary gives a pretty thorough explanation. Water must be flowing over the rudder for the rudder to have any effect.

The slower the boat goes, the slower the turning rate. When this happens there is a tendency to push the tiller over further to get the boat to turn. This doesn't work. The rudder will stall and the boat will slow down even more. Pushing the tiller hard over is like sticking a great big board into the water, some people refer to it as a barn door.

When sailing slowly, turns should be slow and gradual in order to maintain boat speed, sharp hard turns kill boat speed and steerage. The response to this is to center the tiller and allow the boat to build up speed and then try the turn again, slower. Sail trim is important, if the sails are not trimmed well, speed will suffer and subsequently steerage will be lost.

The boat will sail and steer better if the outboard is out of the water. Tilt the motor up and lift the mounting bracket if it can be lifted. Dragging the motor slows the boat down, which is a real problem when trying to steer in light wind.

 

[shemandr]

Do you sail with the outboard down?

 

[IASailor]

Thank you everyone for your answers. I realized I omitted a few important points.

The outboard motor was as high as it will go but it still extends into the water a bit so I made sure it was pointing a straightforward.

After reading my post I realized what I wrote was inaccurate. It's not that the boat won't turn it's that it won't go straight. I had the wind on my starboard side and to keep the boat moving straight, I had the tiller all the way over to Port. I was moving through the water, just not very fast. When I would wind in the starboard side and speed up then I would need to straighten the tiller to stay on course.
In other words the boat turns to Port on its own with the tiller is in a position where I should go straight. However once boat speed picks up everything tracks fine.

So I guess the real question is why won't the boat go straight at slow speeds?

 

[Davidasailor26]

That sounds like excessive lee helm. Some of the same guidance above still applies - If you have the tiller hard over you’re probably stalling the rudder and slowing the boat rather than really turning it. I would check sail trim to make sure you don’t have the jib sheeted in too far, or main out too far. If it starts to happen again you could try letting the jib way out until it’s luffing, which should reduce the lee helm. Straighten out the tiller, and the boat should begin to accelerate a little. As it does you can take the jib in again until it stops luffing, and the speed should continue to build without stalling everything out.

 

[Ted]

It sounds like your sail trim isn't balanced and you have lee helm. Possible fixes. Ease the jib/genoa or induce more twist in the headsail by moving the lead aft. Or the main may be eased too much.

 

[dlochner]

Check the rig tuning. Is the mast straight equally tensioned on both sides?

Is the rudder vertical, i.e, is it canted to one side?

Is the weight on the boat distributed evenly so she sits flat and not listing to one side?

Of these, I would look at rig tuning first as the problem is only on tack.

 

[jon hansen]

there is a concept to steering these toy: 'you steer with the sails, you trim with the rudder"

sail trim, rig tune, load placement, this is what these boys are trying to explain. try keeping the vessel on course with the sails, not the rudder

 

[IASailor]

Check the rig tuning. Is the mast straight equally tensioned on both sides?

Is the rudder vertical, i.e, is it canted to one side?

Is the weight on the boat distributed evenly so she sits flat and not listing to one side?

Of these, I would look at rig tuning first as the problem is only on tack.

I just bought this boat and have tensioned the stays until they "feel good". I have zero experience/knowledge to back up this feeling. Thanks for this tip.

 

[IASailor]

there is a concept to steering these toy: 'you steer with the sails, you trim with the rudder"

sail trim, rig tune, load placement, this is what these boys are trying to explain. try keeping the vessel on course with the sails, not the rudder

Steering with the sails is definitely a concept I need to research. Thanks!

 

[dlochner]

Steering with the sails is definitely a concept I need to research. Thanks!

The jib tends to move the boat to leeward, the main tends to point the boat to weather. When everything is balanced, the boat should sail in a straight line without touching the tiller. Then a wave hits or someone moves and it is necessary to steer again.

 

[IASailor]

The jib tends to move the boat to leeward, the main tends to point the boat to weather. When everything is balanced, the boat should sail in a straight line without touching the tiller. Then a wave hits or someone moves and it is necessary to steer again.

That makes great sense; the boat will pivot around the mast.

Thanks to you and to all the people who posted in this thread. This was a great first post!

I am open to more suggestions if anyone has them.

 

[Benny17441]

Steerage is determined by the speed of the water flowing past the rudder. A boat going with or against the current will experience different speeds over the bottom depending on its heading, to gain similar steerage. It is not fun having to approach a dock at 3-4 knots when going with a strong current with barely adequate steerage.

 

[IASailor]

I sail in the Mississippi River and definitely see the loss of steerage when the wind goes away. I keep moving but can't steer as there is not actually any water moving past the rudder.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

can you take a side photo of the boat with particular interest of the mast. Trying to see if you have too much rake backwards. Also I need to see if any prebend. can you also advise estimated wind speed when that happened. Been years since retiring as a Catalina dealer who use to display the 22 at Annapolis for Frank Butler.

 

[IASailor]

can you take a side photo of the boat with particular interest of the mast. Trying to see if you have too much rake backwards. Also I need to see if any prebend. can you also advise estimated wind speed when that happened. Been years since retiring as a Catalina dealer who use to display the 22 at Annapolis for Frank Butler.

Thank you for the offer! I will definitely take you up on it but it may be a bit as this is a trailer sailer and the mast is currently down. As I'm always putting up and taking down the mast, I am positive my rig is out of whack. I definitely need to look into tuning.

 

[Ron20324]

How about the cross-current?

 

[IASailor]

How about the cross-current?

That is an issue when I sail in the Mississippi, but this was in a large lake (largest in Iowa).

 

[garymalmgren]

Hi AI
Back to the drawing board.

the outboard motor was pointed straight ahead so as not to affect the steering
The outboard motor could be the culprit. You should be able to raise it with the mounting bracket.

Then lilt it so the leg and prop are clear of the water.
Even if this is not causing your steering problem , it is considered "bad form" to sail with the leg in the water.

Best of luck with sail trim, too.


P.S. I would not tow the boat with the motor mounted as per photo.
gary