Poor venting by design

Mar 6, 2008
1,078
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
I use lana-coat on screw threads to seal water leaks and it will work on sealing oder as well. It also makes it possible to remove the nut or the hose easier later. It provides better seals on rubber gaskets. Not to be used on hot engine parts.
 
Jan 12, 2016
268
Hunter 410 Ladysmith, BC
Have you considered buying a small ozone generator, and running it a few hours. They are amazing devices for killing long standing odours. I've bought one of ebay for around 80 bucks that kills odours faster than anything else. Just be sure to run them in an unoccupied space, and beware that they can attack natural rubber. Ours has a timer, I normally never run it more than for an hour at a time. Often 1 hour is all it takes.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,708
- - LIttle Rock
Why not do something that actually eliminates the sources of the odors instead? Yhat's the only way to eliminate odors 'cuz as long as the source remains it just continues generating new odors. A commercial ozone generator can do it, but requires a license to operate...your retail unit is just an air freshener that's also corrosive and harmful to rubber. A little elbow grease and the right products can leave you with a boat that smells fresh as daisy when you open it up.

--Peggie
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Have you considered buying a small ozone generator
I normally don't respond to a positive comment by SBO contributors.

But...

Ozone is an short lived Oxygen molecule or O3 not O2.

Ozone will Oxidize everything it runs into. Albeit small generator or not.
You can fade cushions, yellow teak wood work, yellow Urethane, deteriorate electric wire insulation, etc.

It will Oxidize the foul smelling organic in the cabin air, but it is temporary.

I strongly urge caution using Ozone in your boat cabin.
Jim...
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
I normally don't respond to a positive comment by SBO contributors.

But...

Ozone is an short lived Oxygen molecule or O3 not O2.

Ozone will Oxidize everything it runs into. Albeit small generator or not.
You can fade cushions, yellow teak wood work, yellow Urethane, deteriorate electric wire insulation, etc.

It will Oxidize the foul smelling organic in the cabin air, but it is temporary.

I strongly urge caution using Ozone in your boat cabin.
Jim...
O-rings and impellers, too.
 
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Jan 12, 2016
268
Hunter 410 Ladysmith, BC
I normally don't respond to a positive comment by SBO contributors.

But...

Ozone is an short lived Oxygen molecule or O3 not O2.

Ozone will Oxidize everything it runs into. Albeit small generator or not.
You can fade cushions, yellow teak wood work, yellow Urethane, deteriorate electric wire insulation, etc.

It will Oxidize the foul smelling organic in the cabin air, but it is temporary.

I strongly urge caution using Ozone in your boat cabin.
Jim...

Caution yes, fear no. Bleach can make your whites in your laundry bright, and the right dosage of it can keep your fresh water tanks safe and sterile. Too much can ruin your laundry and poison your water supply. Ozone is no different. Dosage amount and time determines everything. Just like muriatic acid, oxalic acid, and other materials, danger comes from mishandling, misunderstanding how to use, and what the limitations of the material are. Ozone is used to sterilize drinking water, it is a very common cleaning agent but like bleach, and acids must be treated with respect.

You will not fade any cushions or any of the other issues you suggest with running a portable machine (3500-6009 mg/hr) one hour at a time and at most 2-3 treatments would be enough to make a significant improvement. I wouldn't suggest flooding an area for days on end though as it be both unnecessary and could cause damage as you suggest. (One oz of bleach in the 50 gallon water tank is safe, 1 gallon is not.) Dosage amount and timing determine everything.

I would however make sure any exposed rubber (PSS drip-less, engine mounts, etc) are either taped over or protected if one was to consider running a machine for any period exceeding a few hours. Most new machines have 120 minute timers. Running them for 30-60 minutes at a time in an unoccupied space, and allowing an hour after the machine is off before re-entering the boat is a very safe way to quickly and effectively get smells out of boats. You must still remove the source or it will come back, but nothing works better at getting the smell out of fabrics and other porous materials.
 
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Dec 2, 1997
8,708
- - LIttle Rock
According to the EPA, "Available scientific evidence shows that, at concentrations that do not exceed public health standards (70 parts per billion), ozone is generally ineffective in controlling indoor air pollution. The concentration of ozone would have to greatly exceed health standards to be effective in removing most indoor air contaminants. In the process of reacting with chemicals indoors, ozone can produce other chemicals that can be irritating and corrosive."

IOW, they can't deliver enough ozone to destroy the sources of any odors. If they did it should only be necessary to run one occasionally as new sources occur . But among all the people you know who've bought ozone generators, have you ever met anyone who has one who's ever been able to turn if off without having odors return? That should be enough to tell you they're only very expensive air fresheners, because they don't deliver enough ozone to be anything else. Save your money and get rid of the SOURCES of your odors. Yes, that will require a bit of manual labor but it's the only way to get rid of odors for good. A spray can of Febreze or Lysol air freshener will do as much as a portable ozone generator and costs a lot less.
 
Jan 12, 2016
268
Hunter 410 Ladysmith, BC
Peggy,

If you have a pile of dog excrement laying on the floor, an ozone generator will not make it disappear. It needs to be removed. No where in any of my posts in this thread did I say that cleaning up and removing the source is not required. If the source isn't removed all problems come back. However ozone works best at getting foul smells out of fabrics, etc and is one useful tool, (not the only one) in projects like the original poster described. It is simply one tool out of many and should not be discounted, or feared any more than bleach or ammonia.

I have seen cases with black mold where a 5000 mg/hr machine was run for several days and the molds were killed/made inactive. This meant that people could more safely work in that area to replace all the plywood that was mold infested (it was a home attic). I've also used it when buying a used car to eliminate the odours from the previous owners smoking. I ran the machine overnight in the cars interior, the smell of years of smoking was gone. I simply shampooed the interior and the car was good to go. Of course if one smokes again or the ashtray isn't emptied the smell comes back.

Your EPA quote is bang on. That is why you run the machine in an unoccupied area, and allow for time to air out. O3 is unstable and 30 minutes after its produced it will have all but dissipated. Hence why my suggestion to use a timer and wait an hour after it shuts off which is twice what is required to be safe. You must produce enough ozone quantity to not only affect airborne contamination, but to also get into porous surfaces like cloth. Running it one hour at a time with a one hour off time allows the machine to generate enough O3 to be effective while still preventing any risk to rubber items on board. It is an extremely safe way to learn how to use ozone without bringing any risk of damage to ones boat interior or personal health.

On boats that get diesel spills or horrible musty smells that are a result of poor ventilation; the smell if left long enough gets into fabric, and all porous surfaces and can be extremely challenging to remove. Anyone who has washed clothes that were stored on a boat with a strong "boat smell" will know this first hand. I can put an ozone generator into a bag of "boat smell" laundry and run it for 30-60 minutes and eradicate the smell, then launder normally. The clothes won't be damaged either. Just laundering can take 2-3 times through the machine.

A bottle of "Pure Ayre" liquid cleaner sells for around $50/Canadian on Amazon.ca. It will barely last one serious clean up job. That is an expensive air cleaner. Kanberra Gel refill bags run around 90 USD and that is good for around a year. I paid $80 Canadian on eBay for a machine that puts out 3500 mg/hr with a timer.

I've used all three of the above, (Ozone, Pure Ayre, Kanberra), and ozone was by far the most effective method for getting boat smell out a fabrics like boat cushions, mattresses, etc. Pure Ayre worked ok, but two bottles will buy one ozone generator that will likely work for +10 years depending how often it is used. Kanberra Gel is nice to use while the boat is closed up, especially over the winter months in BC, as a preventive measure against mould, but it will not put a significant dent in any pre-existing boat smells.

 
Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Caution yes, fear no.
You obviously know about Ozone.

Many other SBO thread readers don't know.

Thank you for your detailed explanation, which is bang on, on how to Safely use Ozone, with out Fear.

I hope you took my comment as positive.;)
Jim...
 
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Dec 2, 1997
8,708
- - LIttle Rock
PureAyre is not a cleaner, nor is it an air freshener. It completely eliminates odors--even smoke or diesel--entirely when used as directed, which you obviously didn't do. It's necessary to use a cleaning product (detergent and water works just fine) to thoroughly CLEAN the site of a spill or an area where residual odor after hoses have been replaced still remains BEFORE applying it...once it's about 90% dry just a light mist on every surface and every nook and cranny is all that's needed. The odor will not return unless you missed cleaning a spot. It will even remove odors trapped in cushions...remove the covers and send them for cleaning and spray PureAyre into the foam from both sides...enough to penetrate to the center of the foam. If possible, put the cushions out in the sun to dry. Musty foulies just need to be wiped down with the cleaner of your choice and rinsed off, then sprayed with PureAyre and put out in the sun. And finally it's a food grade product, safe to use around food...making it the ideal product to use in a fridge after food has spoiled in it. Leave the fridge open for a several hours to dry completely.
All of this requires a bit of <gasp> manual labor. Air fresheners like ozone don't. So it's really just a matter of whether you want to actually get rid of the odor for good, or are satisfied with a workaround doesn't, but lets you pretend it does.

Fwiw, I have no connection whatever with the makers of PureAyre or any company or person associated with it. I "tripped over it" at a boat show in Seattle about 15 years ago, liked what I heard...their reps sent me home with samples. I've been a big fan ever since 'cuz I know from personal experience and that of a whole bunch of boat owners that it performs as advertised WHEN USED AS DIRECTED!

--Peggie
 
Jan 12, 2016
268
Hunter 410 Ladysmith, BC
PureAyre is not a cleaner, nor is it an air freshener. It completely eliminates odors--even smoke or diesel--entirely when used as directed, which you obviously didn't do. ....Air fresheners like ozone don't.
Wow, I have tried to be beyond polite with you Peggy. However your smugness at times gets to be a bit much. The pure ayre product works okay as I stated before, and yes I followed the directions on the label. Unfounded accusations to the contrary are both false and unnecessary.

Ozone isn't an air freshener. It is a sterilizing agent that occurs both in nature and can be man made. No different than bleach, UV rays etc. Man made ozone is also used to sterilize medical equipment, sterilize greenhouses used for growing medicinal plants, eliminate chlorine in keeping hot tub water clean and safe, purifying the tap water in Boeing 787's, and a host of other uses too long for me to bother listing out.

In tiny amounts ozone can be used to freshen the air but it isn't only an air freshener. Using language in this term seems intentionally deceptive on your part unless you are simply unaware of the many uses of O3 that exist beyond the marine industry.
 
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Mr Fox

.
Aug 31, 2017
204
Marshall 22 Portland, ME
You should not fear ozone if you use it correctly, but you should be very careful with it. The issue is how it's marketed. I happen to know a lot about it, feel free to read on if you would like to learn, fair warning it's long.

Ozone is very effective at purifying water, since its byproduct of destroying pathogens and bacteria in water is oxygen. Great use of it, but a different reaction than one that occurs in air. Also for sterilizing equipment that is moisture or temperature sensitive, when used at extremely high levels in a controlled environment (a sealed sterilization unit) and generated from medical grade oxygen, it does a great job of killing microbes.

It also does a great job at high levels (typically 20,000 mg/hr or higher for a period of 4 hours) of oxidizing mold (killing it). Very effective.

Ozone is amazing at removing certain odors, smoke (fire or cigarette) being a notable example (it is great for that) but this is due to a reaction to chemicals particular to that odor. This does not occur with all odors. It does not oxidize everything it runs into. At safe levels it does not actually remove or oxidize most airborne VOCs.

It is not effective, even at high levels, of killing microbes in porous materials. It damages rubber (latex cushions, hoses, gaskets etc.) and other materials. At "safe" levels it actually increases the amount and size of many secondary organic aerosol masses (especially terpene based masses, got any wood aboard?). Essentially while high levels are dangerous to you, (but very effective at destroying certain odors) low levels make the air around you more harmful to your lungs and don't effectively do much else. The little units you can by as air purifiers are useless unless agrivating your lungs is your goal.

So no, don't fear it when you use it correctly. Seal up the boat, rent a commercial ozone generator, protect or ideally remove all objects that will be damaged by ozone (maybe get a respirator for when you open it back up) shock treat the boat (try 50k mg/hr for 4 hours) and then ventilate. Whatever mold, smoke odor, mold odor (and body odor) is in that boat will be completely obliterated.

It may very well remove other types of odors; our companies that use ozone do so for parts sterilization, mold and smoke. I have not seen any controlled scientific studies that support it's effecteness outside of those uses, but that does not prove that it isn't.

You could, on the other hand, grab some detergent, a brush and some elbow grease, then let things air out after. My marine upholsterer does a great job cleaning my cushions. I have found PureAyre to be very effective when used as directed on things I scrubbed.

Bottom line is ozone has its uses, as does PureAyre. Neither will live up to expectation when not used properly. Ozone is a toxic air pollutant that can cause asthma, heart attacks, severe lung and heart damage, and exposure to it even in low levels can shorten your lifespan. PureAyre is non toxic and safe to use on food. Your choice.
 
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Jan 7, 2011
4,723
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
You should not fear ozone if you use it correctly, but you should be very careful with it. The issue is how it's marketed. I happen to know a lot about it, feel free to read on if you would like to learn, fair warning it's long.

Ozone is very effective at purifying water, since its byproduct of destroying pathogens and bacteria in water is oxygen. Great use of it, but a different reaction than one that occurs in air. Also for sterilizing equipment that is moisture or temperature sensitive, when used at extremely high levels in a controlled environment (a sealed sterilization unit) and generated from medical grade oxygen, it does a great job of killing microbes.

It also does a great job at high levels (typically 20,000 mg/hr or higher for a period of 4 hours) of oxidizing mold (killing it). Very effective.

Ozone is amazing at removing certain odors, smoke (fire or cigarette) being a notable example (it is great for that) but this is due to a reaction to chemicals particular to that odor. This does not occur with all odors. It does not oxidize everything it runs into. At safe levels it does not actually remove or oxidize most airborne VOCs.

It is not effective, even at high levels, of killing microbes in porous materials. It damages rubber (latex cushions, hoses, gaskets etc.) and other materials. At "safe" levels it actually increases the amount and size of many secondary organic aerosol masses (especially terpene based masses, got any wood aboard?). Essentially while high levels are dangerous to you, (but very effective at destroying certain odors) low levels make the air around you more harmful to your lungs and don't effectively do much else. The little units you can by as air purifiers are useless unless agrivating your lungs is your goal.

So no, don't fear it when you use it correctly. Seal up the boat, rent a commercial ozone generator, protect or ideally remove all objects that will be damaged by ozone (maybe get a respirator for when you open it back up) shock treat the boat (try 50k mg/hr for 4 hours) and then ventilate. Whatever mold, smoke odor, mold odor (and body odor) is in that boat will be completely obliterated.

It may very well remove other types of odors; our companies that use ozone do so for parts sterilization, mold and smoke. I have not seen any controlled scientific studies that support it's effecteness outside of those uses, but that does not prove that it isn't.

You could, on the other hand, grab some detergent, a brush and some elbow grease, then let things air out after. My marine upholsterer does a great job cleaning my cushions. I have found PureAyre to be very effective when used as directed on things I scrubbed.

Bottom line is ozone has its uses, as does PureAyre. Neither will live up to expectation when not used properly. Ozone is a toxic air pollutant that can cause asthma, heart attacks, severe lung and heart damage, and exposure to it even in low levels can shorten your lifespan. PureAyre is non toxic and safe to use on food.
Thanks for the details @Mr Fox. Does one have to open all areas one wants exposed (bilge, behind engine where shaft, muffler, etc is, under settees, compartment in bow) to expose it to the ozone? Or will ozone permeate all of these areas? Would ozone damage the foam inside of the settee cushions, berth cushions, etc? How about sanitation hoses, engine hoses, etc.?

More curious than anything...

Greg
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Ozone will Oxidize everything it runs into.
So there is no conflict with others, who exhibited good Ozone knowledge, I will modify my comment for use Inside your boat cabin.
Basically OZONE will "burn" like a fire, anything that is combustible.
Burning is Oxidation.
Many harden surfaces, like gel coats and epoxy, are slower to oxidize, and thus appear resistant.
________
It does not oxidize everything it runs into
True, as I noted above.
______
Or will ozone permeate all of these areas?
Only if you open closed areas to allow Ozone gas to enter.

Would ozone damage the foam inside of the settee cushions, berth cushions, etc? How about sanitation hoses, engine hoses, etc.?
That is why I urge caution. One time use, probably not much damage.
Continuous use, say over winter storage, not for my boat.

Your boat, your choice...
Jim...
 
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Mr Fox

.
Aug 31, 2017
204
Marshall 22 Portland, ME
Quite right- as long as the ozone can get to the area it will work in those areas. Basically if air in the cabin can find a way to your bilge, so can the ozone. It will not damage the foam in your cushions unless it is specifically a latex foam, the other (I think more common) types of foam are (I think) impervious to ozone damage. There is a list online which is a good guide for what materials are damaged by ozone. Give a look at it and then you can figure out what to protect. Jim is absolutely right in his approach- most of the things inside your boat will not be harmed by it.

Ozone is a very effective tool, as long as you are careful with it and use it correctly as Jim has said. Also note VanIslandguy and Jim are mindful of the amounts used and proper ventilation to avoid exposure. That is correct way to keep yourself safe.

Also sorry! I did not mean to come across as preachy with the health issues but it’s very easy to be casual with something you can’t see that is marketed as safe and purifying (that bothers me because it can cause people to harm themselves). Treat it with respect and you can absolutely get great results.

edit- also let me say I used an ozone treatment inside my cabin when I bought the boat as the previous owner let a cockpit leak create a giant Petri dish under the cabin sole. It was in spots you could just barely reach to wipe but no way could scrub at all or get a sprayer in. It killed the mold completely as 3 years later there is still no new mold, and it also removed all the bad smell.
 
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Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Now you have me thinking (dangerous territory) what if you could introduce the ozone into my old Perkins? Would that be like nitrous in a race car? Or would the engine just run wild like an old man drinking rum?
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
All my good ideas are about a week or two behind somebody’s research. I blame my mother for waiting until a snow storm cleared before she went to the hospital to deliver. The results in the study seem positive.