Has anyone tried digital /wireless radar?

Kings Gambit

Kings Gambit

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Jul 27, 2011
5,144
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
The radar was swept off me boat in a weird collision that I may come back to someday here. In the meantime, it was a 1999 Furuno 1622 which cannot be repaired, lacking parts, etc. The "official" replacement is a Furuno 1623, also at 2.2 kw, with similar dimensions and range. However, one of the radar guys suggested going to a digital radar which can send information wireless to a Tablet or other device. So, you do not need a fixed-in-place monitor. Can carry the tablet to the cockpit, or below. Also, can super-impose radar returns over a chartplotter with the right app in the Tablet. Price not much different. Anyone here tried the digital radar?

https://www.furuno.com/en/products/radar/DRS4W
 
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DougM

DougM

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Jul 24, 2005
2,242
Beneteau 323 Manistee, MI
Just installed a raymarine unit on my boat. I have it hard wired to the chart plotter, and have the apps on my ipad and phone for the wi fi Really do not have it calibrated yet. I will say that, so far, its been pretty much plug and play.
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,456
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
A couple of years ago I installed a B&G 4G radar with a Zeus2 MFD. I have little to compare it to, however, it was easy to install and pretty much plug and play. The close range resolution is remarkable. Set on the closest range it picks up the boats across the fair way and saw the geese swimming behind the boat.

One of the real attractions of digital radar for a sailboat is the low power draw, only 27 watts (~2amps) when on and much less on standby. It only takes a few seconds to go from off to full power.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I don’t see chart overlay. This is a hugely important feature that would be very hard to do on a handheld device. You need a rate compass bore-sighted along the centerline. You can’t do that on a handheld.

AIS integration would be nice too, but that would be easier.

I would go with a wireless link from a fixed unit if you want handheld access.
 
capta

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
5,008
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Does anybody have any idea how this tech would react in a lightning storm?
 
JamesG161

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,935
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
capta said:
Does anybody have any idea how this tech would react in a lightning storm?
Click to expand
I have an idea, rare for me. No effect.

Lightning is Amplitude Modulated or AM interference.
Digital Radar is not.
____
The wireless signal computer network is also a Digital signal, so it should behave like a Wireless Computer Signal, which is at a very high frequency.
Jim...
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,456
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
capta said:
Does anybody have any idea how this tech would react in a lightning storm?
Click to expand
Meaning what would happen in a lightning storm? Or if it can see rain?

I imagine that if struck by lighting, it would be fried. I've only had one chance to see if it can see a squall, and it did. Showed up as a big blue blotch.
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,456
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
JamesG161 said:
Lightning is Amplitude Modulated or AM interference.
Digital Radar is not.
Click to expand
The Simrad/B&G radars are frequency modulated. They work like the CHIRP sonars. The pulse is sent across a frequency band and the radar then calculates distance based on the time the particular frequency is returned.
 
capta

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
5,008
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
dlochner said:
Meaning what would happen in a lightning storm? Or if it can see rain?

I imagine that if struck by lighting, it would be fried. I've only had one chance to see if it can see a squall, and it did. Showed up as a big blue blotch.
Click to expand
Was thinking more of interference with the wireless signal.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
dlochner said:
Should not be any more than what you find on any wifi network.
Click to expand
Its probably in the ISM (Industrial, Scientific, Medical) band and using direct-sequence spread spectrum signaling. That's very resistant to interference. Unless you have a very powerful microwave on board! ;^)
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,456
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Jackdaw said:
Its probably in the ISM (Industrial, Scientific, Medical) band and using direct-sequence spread spectrum signaling. That's very resistant to interference. Unless you have a very powerful microwave on board! ;^)
Click to expand
If it is used with a tablet, then it has to be on the same frequencies and use the same protocol as every Starbucks in the US. ::smile::
 
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Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
dlochner said:
If it is used with a tablet, then it has to be on the same frequencies and use the same protocol as every Starbucks in the US. ::smile::
Click to expand
LOL good point! Straight WiFi. Which is pretty much the same as ISM. For some reason was thinking about a proprietary link from the RADAR dome to a base. Not sure why!
 
jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,799
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
In reviewing the Furuno website info there is really no information about the 2.4 GHz signal system employed on the unit.

Home WiFi are going to the 5 GHz band to improve signal speeds and band width. The plethora of gadgets using the 2.4GHz band can cause issues (known as 2.4 GHz band Co-channel interference).

While boats, especially small boats, are mostly analog based systems it is unlikely an issue will occur while sailling. But plant yourself in a marina of mega yachts and your wireless radar signal could be fighting with the refrigerator on the end slip that's trying to contact the local wine shop for more bottles of Dom Perignon.
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,456
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Jackdaw said:
LOL good point! Straight WiFi. Which is pretty much the same as ISM. For some reason was thinking about a proprietary link from the RADAR dome to a base. Not sure why!
Click to expand
The link from the radome to the base could be something different if the unit is completely wireless. But that would require them to add a second transmitter and receiver to handle the data. That won't help Furuno to meet a price point. The Simrad/B&G unit uses straight ethernet with a proprietary weather proof connector at the radome and a plain old RJ-45 jack at the base unit.

(In the mean time I'm realizing how spoiled I am at home with a fast fiber optic internet connection while I am sitting here on Mount Desert Island sharing a DSL line with 3 other people, I think dial up was faster.)
 
Gunni

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
FYI, that 4kw Furuno uses twice the power of a 3G multifrequency radar. If you are going to install and rely a radar do it right and wire it to a chart overlay and give strong consideration to the improved 3G and 4G multifrequency radars, they are much easier to use and just work. Worst navigation gear I ever had to contend with was a set of those Tack-Tick wireless wind instruments which did not want to wirelessly connect no matter how many techs and teenagers we put on the job. I have a dim view of wireless reliability. And an even dimmer view of landlubber tablets and phones as nav instruments.
 
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JamesG161

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,935
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Gunni said:
And an even dimmer view of landlubber tablets and phones as nav instruments.
Click to expand
:plus::plus:
However Raymarine does have a remote iPad app as a repeater station. It will NOT do AutoPilot tho.
It is wireless using the Raymarine proprietary internal wireless net.
I must connect my iPad to the RM net with a special linking 26 character anti hacking code.
Jim...
 
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nat55

nat55

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Feb 11, 2017
210
Gulfstar 1979 Gulfstar 37 BELFAST
I had a conversation with a Raymarine tech about their wireless instruments, he gave a max height for the mast head unit that seemed not that high, I don't remember what he said except that it seemed to eliminate most larger cruising boats. I've not heard of any issues around wireless radar but like Gunni I distrust wireless technology for an essential piece of navigation gear.
 
Rick D

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,195
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
"The radar was swept off me boat in a weird collision that I may come back to someday here..." OK, at some point, you have to come clean; hope it was not serious.
 
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