Mast Down, on the hard - sanity check before i burn a few grand?

[tipsyravensailing]

and there's the trick to all this - there's religiously following instructions but its tempered by first hand accounts. i have no first hand account i sincerely do appreciate the insights, corrections, alternatives and suggestions guys and gals. I'm snuggling down into the bottom of my human cannon and about to shoot myself into the sailing/cruising lifestyle and i want to make sure i minimize the fumbles.

i will be taking the advice about the streamer/deck light combo for sure, as well as the advice about the smart tricolor bulb.

I just want to make sure the mast is proper wired cause once it goes up i don't want to pay the 600+ bucks to just run an extra wire up it. (assuming i gotta pull it down and put it back up again).

so, again, and always, thanks for the insights - and by all means, don't let this stop you if you have more

 

[Parsons]

Yep - dlochner certainly knows his stuff on this. Sorry for doubting, but I was just "reading the can" and had no practical experience trying to do this.

 

[dlochner]

I'm snuggling down into the bottom of my human cannon and about to shoot myself into the sailing/cruising lifestyle and i want to make sure i minimize the fumbles.

It is when you fumble that you learn. Just try not to make fatal fumbles.

Yep - dlochner certainly knows his stuff on this. Sorry for doubting, but I was just "reading the can" and had no practical experience trying to do this.

I had no experience in this either, until I had to fix a rudder and a keel and some other parts and noticed that when I got a little sloppy with the barrier coat and went over the top of the VC 17 that the world didn't end and the paint stuck to the boat. Then I got thinking about the chemistry of VC 17 and realized that the solvents in the paint dissolved the old VC 17, the copper just got incorporated into the barrier coat. Again, I would not do a whole boat this way, for small areas or where you trying fair in the barrier coat, nothing bad will happen. Not sure if this will work with a water based paint.

 

[Apex]

vc has little thickness, so u want a smooth bottom prepped first. if you already have ablative, stick with it.

as far as application of vc, i paint every year which is overkill. a 28ft can be recoated with 1 qt, i plan 1.5qt. wipe the previous bottom lightly with acetone on clean shop towel. then use a 4in foam roller dipping directly into the can, and put the lid on after every dip. roll lightly in one direction and minimize going over same spot until fully dry so as not to lift.

 

[dlochner]

Well, Tipsy, you have received a boatload of good advice. Let's see if we can give it some form and make it all useful.

First, you have set out an ambitious agenda. If you try to get all of it done before launching this spring you must be independently wealthy with no social obligations or need to work to earn the money to pay for all that you want to do or, you have yet to learn the first rule of boat maintenance and repair: It will take more money, time, sweat, and blood to complete any job on a boat than is initially (and delusional) planned. Man makes plans, God laughs, could not be truer than in boat maintenance.

So, assuming that you want to launch and sail the boat sometime before the next millennia, try to prioritize the jobs. Think of this restoration project as a multi year endeavor. The last boat I owned, took me some 14 years to get it close to where I wanted it, and then I bought a bigger boat and sold the old one. I'm into year 5 on this boat. My brother bought a boat (he should have talked to me first) and he is in year, I can't count that high in his restoration and he could have paid the tuition for his kid's college education for the money he's spent.

Because it costs so much to drop your mast, put your money and time into the mast. In addition to rewiring, look at the masthead sheaves and the standing rigging. It is much easier to replace those when the mast is horizontal and 3 feet off the ground on sawhorse than when it is vertical.

Next look at safety issues. Lifelines, through hulls, lighting, and so forth.

Then the engine and electrical systems, are they functional? Don't worry at this point about the ideal, just make them serviceable.

Are there things that will make your life aboard more comfortable? Cushions, working head, working stove, curtains, deck leaks over the V-berth?

The last things to deal with are cosmetic. At this point in your ownership learn to buff and wax. It will take you a day to do a decent job buffing and waxing the topsides, painting them will take weeks, unless you have a nice paint shed and don't have a job or a social life.

So, take a deep breath, relax, and focus on what is truly important, enjoying your boat and learning.

 

[Chris & Lenore]

VC 17 coverage can be extended by mixing with acetone. Several at our club mix a quart of acetone with a quart of VC and use it on 36 footers.
After doing this for years and comparing (at haulout) to boats with undiluted we could see no difference.
We also have members who only recoat every second year and see no difference compared to annnual recoaters.

 

[jssailem]

@tipsyravensailing you are getting excellent info from @dlochner

His idea of a progressive step by step plan has been working for me since 2015. Infrastructure, Safety, performance, and pleasure were the priority steps for me.

With my mast down, I repowered and rerigged. The experiences I have had sailing at night influenced my decision not to light up the boat with High Powered fishing lights on the spreaders. Head lamps work. If needed the LED down light that is part of a AquaSignal Series 25 Steaming Light works extremely well. Because the mast is behind the light it helps to protect the night vision of the Helm. Most of the time my night sailing is in the dark. You can see far more then you can imagine.

 

[DougM]

If you plan on pulling wire up the mast, I would suggest pulling a messenger line at the same time. That way, if you need to add an extra wire there is a means to bring it up without dropping the mast. That’s assuming you have a bosun’s chair and you don’t mind climbing.

 

[tipsyravensailing]

indeed. with the mast down it just makes sense to go full tilt on getting it happy. My ham operator bud is coming over and we're going to make a weekend of it once i got a pile of parts. He's a ninja with a cable snake.

I'm already planning on ignoring any damages above the water line until after its floating.

Motor is headed to my dad who's a small engine repair guy.

The gal has already committed to redoing all the cushions - she was soundly unimpressed by their 70s era colors. i told her i'll sleep on the hard surface if i gotta so when she gets it its got. lord knows i'm not going to do it for her - that'd piss her off right quick.

I think the missing piece here is i'm remarkably charismatic and can reliably delegate and have a nice network of folks who are reliable after volunteering I'm going to take the month of april to do this mast work and the other. The month of may to do hull work and paint. wait a week or two after the holiday then put myself in the yard in june, meaning potentially motoring around in late june. Sails up for the first time in july.

With the boat on the hard behind my house and next to my shop i'm very easily spending 20+ hours a week on the boat right now. incidentally i've been a woodworker/blacksmith metal worker for 20 years. I'm very handy with any tool i pick up.

With all that optimism i'm not a fool. Its why i'm here to talk to you folks, and i've said it before and will never stop saying it - i appreciate the insights and knowledge. I learned at a young age that the best way up is with an ask for advice and demonstration of willingness to do the work.

Ultimately, i don't want to be charter. either i'll be an owner or i'll find another path in life. The bucket list has been completely narrowed down to one thing. sail around the world. maybe twice. my nauticed tests and such are coming along great and i've given myself 10 years to make sure i got all my ducks in a row with experience, financing, etc etc to see it happen. Now i'm working on the first boat. i may as you said, sell it in a few years for abigger one, something more akin to what i'll be going blue water with, and then make the final jump. no sure. its far enough away i don't need to think about it yet.

What i need to think about is all the false starts and in an out of the water and all that sillyness. Mitigate it. make ready. learned a long time ago in the scouts:

Be prepared.
&
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Pitifully Poor Performance.

so. ya. i'm kinda driven. i have about 40 grand in surplus pay checks a year to work with (and assuming i dont get another sizable raise again). my only debts are my house and my car, and i'm paying 50% over base payment each month on those to drive them to zero in less than 10 years. and i'm a jack of trades master of a few. not a master of this one though. not yet.

 

[tipsyravensailing]

If you plan on pulling wire up the mast, I would suggest pulling a messenger line at the same time. That way, if you need to add an extra wire there is a means to bring it up without dropping the mast. That’s assuming you have a bosun’s chair and you don’t mind climbing.

we were gonna send a line up that could be used to pull something in the future, as well as put outdoor rated cat6 comms for wifi something as a future enhancement too. my ham guy insisted on it and its a good idea. i think. makes sense to have a wifi receiver way up in the clear.

 

[tipsyravensailing]

right now actually that explains the full clown car status of the cabling:

4 conductor wiring for lights
n2k cable for wind sensors
vhf rg213 cable for comms
cat6 cable for data/wifi
fishing line (probably not literally) to pull future enhancements up

We're looking at having the cables break free at the base of the mast out the side, and building a swanneck to bring them all inside as currently cables go down through the step and there's not enough room. The swanneck gives us a drip loop and serviceability without having to get access to the step. It also brings the cables into the boat beside the mast step supporting structure in the cabin, so you don't have to rip all that out to do something with the upgrade. sure it puts cables along the ceiling of the cabin in the locker but i'm really quite ok with that

As for lighting i'm going to go the smart led at the top, new housing. Steaming/Deck light combo at the spreaders. i'm putting a new vhf whip at the top, replacing all sheaves and the bosun chair block while i'm up there too. and a new windex, but i'm guessing i should install that after the mast is up (shipping could damage it). the rigging itself is in great shape, but i am going to replace the sheaves in the backstay adjuster. the blocks for it are ronstan and in great shape. I plan on rebedding chainplates. The starboard rear backstay chainplate has a bit of compressed fiberglass around it and i think i should probably do that fix in april before loading weight on it.

 

[Gunni]

Need to remember the mast has internal halyards.

 

[tipsyravensailing]

Need to remember the mast has internal halyards.

I thought about running the halyards inside the mast but opted against it. Right now the only thing in there is a pvc pipe loaded with crap cable and foam block looking things which I presume are to stop slapsounds. If there's supposed to be halyards inside then I am 99 percent positive there isn't and no where for them to route if so.

 

[Gunni]

The conduit is where your wire bundle should be run in case you decide to make the upgrade to internal halyards. Depends on whether you can endure halyard slap or not.

 

[DArcy]

i think. makes sense to have a wifi receiver way up in the clear.

If you are considering a Wi-Fi extender, have a look at Bitstorm http://www.bitstorm.com/

WRT bottom paint, my boat had hard paint when I bought it. I didn't have much time and was doing the work myself so I stripped sections of the hard paint each spring before launch. I painted over the old stuff with VC-17 and had not problems with it. After a few years I got down to bare gelcoat and I have a smooth bottom. Now I give it a light sanding each spring before painting and can get coverage for my 27 footer with 1 quart of VC-17.

 

[jssailem]

@tipsyravensailing This is a great project plan.
Masts have one of two wiring styles...

1. Wires captured in one or two conduits
2. Wires run loose inside of mast or in foam insulation

My preference is in conduit (thin walled pvc pipe) attached to the mast with pop rivets. One conduit running from just above the base to the top of the mast for mast head wiring, and a conduit run to the location of the steaming light. Holes are drilled into the mast to provide wire access. Grommets and or amalgam electrical tape to prevent chafe and help reduce water intrusion.
Not sure how your mast is stepped. I have a deck stepped mast. This required a method to move the wires through the deck.
Here are images of my solution.

I ran the VHF cable all the way from the Mast head to the radio. No breaks. Less loss.
The LED lighting on the mast. The electrical came down to the block attached to the compression post. This allows the wires to be disconnected should I have to remove the mast.. (Hopefully not again during my boat ownership). My buddy @LeslieTroyer fashioned a great chase to cover the wires.

 

[jssailem]

If halyards run inside of mast, take care with how they run. You want to assure there are no bolts or screws protruding into the mast that can contribute to line chafe. Also inspect and align then lines to the exit fittings so they run free and true between the mast head and base. It is easy to cross lines inside the mast. You do not need the additional friction when lines get twisted.

Chainplates should be inspected for pit corrosion. If minor it can be buffed out. On the other hand if the corrision is extensive it is best to replace the chain plates. Your metal skills will be valuable. Stainless is best given a passivation bath after being worked. It helps to reduce the incidence of further corrosion

 

[tipsyravensailing]

The conduit is where your wire bundle should be run in case you decide to make the upgrade to internal halyards. Depends on whether you can endure halyard slap or not.

Wouldn't the halyard slap on the mast regardless ? Couldn't you drop the main down then hook the halyard over the hook for reefing then winch a bit of taught into it to keep it from moving as much? Or would that make it like a guitar string... Haha. I might make the lines internal but I'm not sure it's worth the effort on the Pearson.

 

[jssailem]

Tipsy... you can always pull the lines away form the mast. Maybe to the life line. Or to the bow pulpit. Then no banging. No matter how tight you cinch the lines the wind is relentless and if the halyards are on the mast they will bang.

 

[tipsyravensailing]

If halyards run inside of mast, take care with how they run. You want to assure there are no bolts or screws protruding into the mast that can contribute to line chafe. Also inspect and align then lines to the exit fittings so they run free and true between the mast head and base. It is easy to cross lines inside the mast. You do not need the additional friction when lines get twisted.

Chainplates should be inspected for pit corrosion. If minor it can be buffed out. On the other hand if the corrision is extensive it is best to replace the chain plates. Your metal skills will be valuable. Stainless is best given a passivation bath after being worked. It helps to reduce the incidence of further corrosion

The plates are free of even rust stains and are in fact still shiny.

Passivation bath?