Mast Down, on the hard - sanity check before i burn a few grand?

[tipsyravensailing]

Heya all!

Based on research and conversations here and lurking other conversations this is where i'm at:


Total pre launch 2237

Triton $1400

antenna $70

windex https://www.amazon.com/Davis-Instru...id=1521642505&sr=8-1&keywords=sailboat+windex $30

rf terminator $30

rg213 $50

4 wire https://www.amazon.com/Ancor-154010...r=8-8&keywords=marine+trailer+wire&th=1&psc=1 $82

anchor light https://store.marinebeam.com/smart-led-tri-color-anchor-light-and-strobe-n3-tri-cmb/ $110

steamer https://store.marinebeam.com/led-masthead-steaming-light/ $90

deck lights https://www.amazon.com/Light-Northp...e=UTF8&qid=1521640992&sr=8-5&keywords=18w+led $15

grommets local hardware $10
deck drain hose local hardware $20

Primer https://www.jamestowndistributors.c...MIiqHNzMb92QIVSbnACh2vQg-KEAQYASABEgLxuPD_BwE $90

white paint interlux white poly $100

vinyl stripe local vinyl shop $80

coppercoat http://coppercoat.com/coppercoat-info/application/ (Probably wont do this, if i do its 460)

vc 17 https://www.jamestowndistributors.c...MI7L6w2cv92QIVA7bACh1wXAL1EAAYASAAEgKyuvD_BwE $60 (assuming i only need one kt, but i think i need more things to make it usable)


So - am i missing anything? totally off base with something else? The cost of mast rewiring and hull painting is greater than what i paid for the boat so i'm just being cautious.

Yes, i'm throwing in a the triton and want to get it installed while the mast is down, hence being a part of prelaunch. The boat has no ~working~ instrumentation otherwise.

THANKS!

 

[Gunni]

Were you under the impression that this was an investment with a return other than your recreational pleasure?

 

[tipsyravensailing]

oh its all about pleasure. i'm shooting these dollars off like monkeys into space. I'd just like to know that most of the monkeys get there. I don't want to bork up so badly i put a money in a washtub and say i have a working space program

 

[Gunni]

Life is full of risks, moreso in water world. You need proper working navigation lighting, you don’t need a shiny topside, you probably want a smooth painted bottom. We haven’t heard anything about running rigging or hardware. Get the boat wet and spend a season or two contemplating your concerns and practicing relaxation. Who knows you may hate this sailboat ownership thing and opt for charters.

 

[tipsyravensailing]

i mean, explicitly speaking the boat will probably cost 10+ grand to buy ship and refit properly, sell for no more than 6 on a very good day, and cost 4 grand a year to maintain a slip and storage, plus god knows what to keep it floating. It is a net loss universally. lol. I just wanna mitigate SOME of that loss that would otherwise be attributed to gross incompetence.

 

[tipsyravensailing]

oh, thats cause i had the rigging inspected by the yard i bought it from before i bought it from the private seller... sorry, i can appreciate how that might seem like a big oversight.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

That's just your estimate right now, right? Double it just to get used to reality.

 

[Gunni]

Is this your decision or do you have a backseat driver?

 

[tipsyravensailing]

heh. the accounting permits for it to be doubled, and then some, because ya, i'm sure there's a bunch of unforeseen bits in between. Like the vc-17 stuff - i'm pretty sure i'm going to have at least 3 different trips to the west marine just to get everything i need for it

 

[tipsyravensailing]

no side seat or back seat driver. I got a stack of cash and the decision is all mine. Which is why i'm hesitating - i need to get it ordered and start shipping all the bits in so its all ready to 1. float (so bottom side and through holes and deck drains) 2. stand up the mast (wiring and radio and instruments and lights) (i've already replaced all the sheaves). I'm sure i'll be burning 4 times as much just getting it to where i want to get it outta the slip. Problem is i'm on the fringe of anythingi have experience with and so i'm skirting the problem instead of diving. Hence, sanity check. I have 20 (of which 5 or so is loose for the problem of getting it far enough to launch in two months) grand in this years budget set aside to decide if i want to be an owner, i already own the boat and the slip for it. i just need to make the boat nice enough to want to keep doing it.

 

[dlochner]

Defender's big annual sale starts this afternoon. Check there for price mitigation.

What kind of paint is on the bottom now? Do you need to put on a barrier coat? VC 17 can go on top of most paints. If you buy 2 cans of VC 17 you'll have some left over for next year. I would use a little over a can on my Sabre 30.

Check Waytekwire.com and Genuinedealz.com for wiring prices. Be careful with West, their prices tend to be high, although with new ownership they seem to be willing to price match.

 

[Parsons]

I installed the MarineBeam anchor / tri-light that you indicated (white plastic) and found that it shattered following cold weather in storage. Perhaps due to stressing from mounting bolts or defective plastic, who knows. MarineBeam has GREAT customer service - they apologized and sent me their version of the Series 40, which also has the bayonet base that works with their tri-color bulb. This is more robust, and is also available with the tri-light - https://store.marinebeam.com/all-around-led-anchor-light-for-sailboat-mast-series-40-type-20m/ The bulb is great, by the way.

As far as steaming and deck lights, why not go with a single LED fixture at the steaming light location to light the foredeck? The two spreader lights you selected in LED will probably light up the area around your boat like a parking lot in a bad neighborhood!

The "local hardware store" idea is not too bad to save some money, if you're sure you're getting good stainless. The work of installing something is not worth saving 50-cents on grommets.

The VC17 is great stuff for Great Lakes boaters,. but you will almost definitely need more than 2 qts to cover the bottom of a 28 footer. If you're not familiar with using it, remember the evaporation rate on this is akin to rubbing alcohol. I've found that keeping the stuff in a squeeze ketchup bottle with a cap or an assistant's finger, then squirting it on your roller will save you about 25 percent of the paint. At $60 per quart, that will buy you lunch. Remember to reserve about a cup to paint the pad marks and under the keel right before they splash it. Happy Spring!

 

[tipsyravensailing]

Defender's big annual sale starts this afternoon. Check there for price mitigation.

What kind of paint is on the bottom now? Do you need to put on a barrier coat? VC 17 can go on top of most paints. If you buy 2 cans of VC 17 you'll have some left over for next year. I would use a little over a can on my Sabre 30.

Check Waytekwire.com and Genuinedealz.com for wiring prices. Be careful with West, their prices tend to be high, although with new ownership they seem to be willing to price match.

The current bottom has some deep navy blue color ablative. Its splotchy and when i get finished replacing the fairing around keel to hull join and rudder tube and the various gouges i have every intention of sanding it down to primer or glass and starting over.

i'll start looking at those leads now

 

[tipsyravensailing]

I installed the MarineBeam anchor / tri-light that you indicated (white plastic) and found that it shattered following cold weather in storage. Perhaps due to stressing from mounting bolts or defective plastic, who knows. MarineBeam has GREAT customer service - they apologized and sent me their version of the Series 40, which also has the bayonet base that works with their tri-color bulb. This is more robust, and is also available with the tri-light - https://store.marinebeam.com/all-around-led-anchor-light-for-sailboat-mast-series-40-type-20m/ The bulb is great, by the way.

As far as steaming and deck lights, why not go with a single LED fixture at the steaming light location to light the foredeck? The two spreader lights you selected in LED will probably light up the area around your boat like a parking lot in a bad neighborhood!

The "local hardware store" idea is not too bad to save some money, if you're sure you're getting good stainless. The work of installing something is not worth saving 50-cents on grommets.

The VC17 is great stuff for Great Lakes boaters,. but you will almost definitely need more than 2 qts to cover the bottom of a 28 footer. If you're not familiar with using it, remember the evaporation rate on this is akin to rubbing alcohol. I've found that keeping the stuff in a squeeze ketchup bottle with a cap or an assistant's finger, then squirting it on your roller will save you about 25 percent of the paint. At $60 per quart, that will buy you lunch. Remember to reserve about a cup to paint the pad marks and under the keel right before they splash it. Happy Spring!

Thanks for the application tip! The hardware store is mom and pop style. they've known me by my first name since i was a teen. They've never pointed me wrong and i don't mind spending extra for quality.

I was thinking the spreader deck lights i picked out might be gloriously over the top but as a newb if i find myself out at dark i dont' want to struggle with dim lighting as well as my dim experience.

 

[dlochner]

i have every intention of sanding it down to primer or glass and starting over.

Save a lot of time, effort, and frustration, do not sand the gel coat off. Sand or use a paint stripper to take the old ablative paint off. Pick a paint provider and follow their instructions religiously.

 

[Gunni]

You’re the captain, heavy is the head who wears the cap. Two things you can do right away; 1) Figure out everything you can do yourself and do it, and 2) only buy what you need to buy at West Marine.

Go cheap and easy with bottom paint, slap some ablative on and get sailing. Bottom work is easily the biggest joy killer of boat ownership. Avoid it for now, what is the worst that happens, you get some stuff growing on your hull?

There is a store on this website and pretty much everything they sell costs less and ships to your door...freeing you up to stay at the yard working on the boat!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I was thinking the spreader deck lights i picked out might be gloriously over the top but as a newb if i find myself out at dark i dont' want to struggle with dim lighting as well as my dim experience.

I agree with Parsons, the steaming light / deck light is a good alternative for spreader lights. I installed the Marine Beam version last year and it is plenty of light. I know other folks like the spreader lights, instead, for various reasons. If you are already wired for spreader lights, I could see that choice. If not, I would use the deck light instead, for simplicity.

 

[dlochner]

Deck lighting is tricky, too much light and you wipe out everyone's night vision, not enough light and you can't see what you're doing.

The combo steaming/deck lights work well, reduce weight aloft, and are easier to wire with just one triplex wire. Add a couple of LED headlamps that have a red light option and you'll have plenty of light for almost any task.

 

[Parsons]

Fully agree with Gunni, it's not fun painting bottoms! I don't agree with dlochner that you can put VC17 over anything. According to Interlux, it's pretty picky on what it sticks too (your skin is not one of them, so wear gloves and old clothes).
https://newcontent.westmarine.com/c...erlux_Antifouling_Compatibility_Chart2015.pdf

BTW: this handy article from West has a bunch of good links to applying paint, and what you need for prep: https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/DIY-Bottom-Painting

 

[dlochner]

Fully agree with Gunni, it's not fun painting bottoms! I don't agree with dlochner that you can put VC17 over anything. According to Interlux, it's pretty picky on what it sticks too (your skin is not one of them, so wear gloves and old clothes).

If the underlying paint is well attached and not peeling, VC 17 can go over the paint. Interlux won't recommend it because if it fails then they are on the hook for the failure. While, it can go on over old paint, that is not the method I would use, unless I was just doing a quick and dirty job to get me through a season before I tackled the onerous job of removing all the bottom paint, applying a barrier coat, and then bottom paint. That's a job that's best started in the fall after haulout, because it will take much longer than you plan.

Barrier coats, like Interlux 2000e can be applied over VC 17. The solvents in the 2000e dissolve the VC 17 and float it to the top of the paint surface. I wouldn't do a whole boat this way, however, if you are repairing the hull and applying new 2000e over the repair, there will be places with the 2000e will end up covering some old VC17. I've done a few repairs and the barrier coat held up fine where it overlapped. Again, Interlux won't tell you to do this because they would be responsible for anything that didn't work.

Two years ago I removed almost all of the VC17 on my boat and put a new barrier coat and different bottom paint. There were a few areas that I could not easily remove all of the VC17, I painted over them and after 2 seasons they look fine.