Assm spinnaker setup on M25
- Thread starter RussC
- Start date
You use an adjustable tack line(or "tack downhaul"). This allows you to adjust the height of the tack (lowering flattens, raising makes it fuller) The picture shows a purchase set up... good idea if you don't have a spare winch. My 27 footer uses a 2:1 system which allows hand adjustment in most conditions.
Some skippers like to attach the tack to the forestay. The picture below shows one method. If you don't have roller furling, a simple snap hook at the upper end of the tack line will allow you clip it to the forestay.
Personally, I don't attach it... because it means you have to go all the way to the pulpit to engage and dis engage... I'd rather stay back near the mast. and do everything from there. On a 25 foot boat I don't think a furling sock is necessary. A spinnaker turtle bag, with a hoop to keep the top open, works a lot better.
Some skippers like to attach the tack to the forestay. The picture below shows one method. If you don't have roller furling, a simple snap hook at the upper end of the tack line will allow you clip it to the forestay.
Personally, I don't attach it... because it means you have to go all the way to the pulpit to engage and dis engage... I'd rather stay back near the mast. and do everything from there. On a 25 foot boat I don't think a furling sock is necessary. A spinnaker turtle bag, with a hoop to keep the top open, works a lot better.
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Thanks Joe. pictures always help. I guess what I was missing in my vision was the use of the adjustable tack line. though now I can see that having one does provide multiple benefits. somehow I was envisioning the tack of the spin being attached more directly to the base of the forestay, or bowsprit. So as long as the spinnaker I get (haven't purchased one yet) can be raised high enough for the foot to clear the pulpit, I should be golden....... I think 
.
I have a hank on jib BTW.
Thanks again.
.I have a hank on jib BTW.
Thanks again.
I put a bail on my anchor roller and gave a swivel block on the bail. My tack line runs forward through fair leads on the cabin sides and a swivel block on the bottom of the rear pulpit support to feed it to the block on the bail.
There is quite a load on the tack... so... whatever you anchor it to should be able to handle those upward forces. Although the sail works quite well without one, adding a bowsprit will improve performance and won't interfere with the jib. The bowsprit must be able to handle the torsion loads though, so if you're going that route, do some research. On my wish list is the very cool Selden kit....nice.
SideBar....... A few years back I got creative and added a Johnson stanchion mount fairlead to the bowsprit, then I ran a rope guy down to the shackle on the stem to give it support. Even so the leverage on the pulpit rail was noticeable... I could see it lifting a bit, even with the extra support. Essentially, I lost confidence in the jury rig and took it down... I eventually found that I liked the way the sail performed NOT ATTACHED to the forestay.
SideBar....... A few years back I got creative and added a Johnson stanchion mount fairlead to the bowsprit, then I ran a rope guy down to the shackle on the stem to give it support. Even so the leverage on the pulpit rail was noticeable... I could see it lifting a bit, even with the extra support. Essentially, I lost confidence in the jury rig and took it down... I eventually found that I liked the way the sail performed NOT ATTACHED to the forestay.
This utube video shows my spinnaker setup in action on a typical windless day in the Chesapeake
I have a good bit of 2" 7075 T-6 aircraft aluminum tubing in my stash and still have visions of fabricating a short bowsprit in the future, but when I was investigating the idea yesterday I realize the amount of project creep needed to do that properly. so for the time being, I now plan to just attach a tack line at the base of the forestay until I understand more than I know about using the spinnaker .
It would be interesting to know just what the forces are on a given size spinnaker tack under various conditions, but .5oz or .75oz ripstop should provide some degree of "fuse" to any system also.
. It would be interesting to know just what the forces are on a given size spinnaker tack under various conditions, but .5oz or .75oz ripstop should provide some degree of "fuse" to any system also.
Interesting video there THECUSCUS. I had to run it a few times to get the drift, but I think the concepts are beginning to sink in to my pee brain now. so thanks! I see you have a "kibitzer" on your deck just like mine also
I see a line spliced into the sheets in your video..... what's it called?... a tweener, or tweeker, or some such . where do you have the control end of that line. it seems that could get a little messy over the cockpit area??
Oh yes... and I noticed that BWY recommends having the spinnaker halyard block 18"-24" above the jib halyard block. seems like a lot of unsupported mast, but I guess there's no problem there?? did you go that high with yours?
I see a line spliced into the sheets in your video..... what's it called?... a tweener, or tweeker, or some such
. where do you have the control end of that line. it seems that could get a little messy over the cockpit area??Oh yes... and I noticed that BWY recommends having the spinnaker halyard block 18"-24" above the jib halyard block. seems like a lot of unsupported mast, but I guess there's no problem there?? did you go that high with yours?
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A tweaker.... or "twing" is a handy thing and quite easy to set up. The twing acts like a jibsheet fair lead. It also enables you to control the clew height and stabilize it.......I see a line spliced into the sheets in your video..... what's it called?... a tweeter, or tweeker, or some such
The twing is not spliced to the sheet. ... but hey... rather than trying to explain ad naseum try googling "spinnaker twing" for many pictures and articles on how they are rigged(there are numerous methods) and used.
Russ.... after looking at THECUSCUS's vid, the splice you're referring to is the lazy sheet. He has a very long single sheet to the sail's clew that is split into two sheets a ways back. I do this on my boat, but the single, pendant part is only about 2 feet long. I do this so I can have nylon/plastic, easy open clips on the end of the sheets that make handling the sail faster and simpler. The clew's cringle is too small for both clips, so a big loop on the pendant works way better. The pendant is left on the sail.
Also I noticed he complained about his sail being too small... so he's got an enormous length on his tack line.... which results in the sail floating around out of control. In my opinion: Either he attaches the spinnaker's tack to the forestay, ....or.... he should drop the halyard a few feet and shorten up the tack line to bring the sail forward then head up maybe 10 or 15 degrees... the goal is to get the sail full and stable.... I do not see any twings.... but if he lets the sheet out after bringing in the tackline to set the sail more forward, a twing could be used to keep the clew from rising. That's the reason he probably has the sail sheeted in as much as he does, trying to keep the clew down while the tack floats all over the place. You can make a twing out of a plastic snap hook and a length of line and tie it to a stanchion. Good luck.
Also I noticed he complained about his sail being too small... so he's got an enormous length on his tack line.... which results in the sail floating around out of control. In my opinion: Either he attaches the spinnaker's tack to the forestay, ....or.... he should drop the halyard a few feet and shorten up the tack line to bring the sail forward then head up maybe 10 or 15 degrees... the goal is to get the sail full and stable.... I do not see any twings.... but if he lets the sheet out after bringing in the tackline to set the sail more forward, a twing could be used to keep the clew from rising. That's the reason he probably has the sail sheeted in as much as he does, trying to keep the clew down while the tack floats all over the place. You can make a twing out of a plastic snap hook and a length of line and tie it to a stanchion. Good luck.
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Russ, I think my spinnaker block is in the 8-12 inch range above the jib halyard block. My spinnaker sheet is one length of New England ropes flightline (it floats and has a dynema core) which has the core stripped off in the middle of the length, where a shorter piece of dynema line goes to the crew. This keeps the weight of line hanging on the clew to a bare minimum, but has great strength. The covered part of the sheet runs to the turning blocks I has attached to the aft deck cleats and then up to my winches. Sounds a lot more complicated than it us. Look at the blue/yellow line in the video.
Joe, thanks for your input. Yes, I was trying to sail too close to ddw, which is why I had the tack out so far, but I was determined to go in that direction no matter how slow I was going
And letting Otto stear the boat in shifty wind conditions, while I videod , didn't help the trim either.
Joe, thanks for your input. Yes, I was trying to sail too close to ddw, which is why I had the tack out so far, but I was determined to go in that direction no matter how slow I was going
And letting Otto stear the boat in shifty wind conditions, while I videod , didn't help the trim either.
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Video cameras are the bane of good sailing technic. I have plenty of supporting evidence of my own
. easy for me to look past that to get at the good stuff .Many thanks to both you and Joe for the excellent information. I'm learning a lot here!
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Yep, simply sailing too low/deep and the mainsail was blanketing the spinnaker. Don't be stubborn, it's easy to gybe that sail... so do a series of long downwind tacks... say 160deg off true wind direction. All will be good.... but DDW is almost impossible with the gennaker unless you drop the main. Rigging a whisker pole for wing on wing requires a lot of equipment to set up... not worth it, imho........
Joe, thanks for your input. Yes, I was trying to sail too close to ddw, which is why I had the tack out so far, but I was determined to go in that direction no matter how slow I was going
And letting Otto stear the boat in shifty wind conditions, while I videod , didn't help the trim either.
Another tactic would be to reef the mainsail and center it... letting the spinnaker do all the work... the main acting as a balance against the boat rolling and stressing the tiller pilot. Also, with the main interfering less with the spin you could get some effective trim on it... just a thought....don't get to anal about all this though.. looks like you were having fun... which is the most important thing. Good Luck.
Well my "new" assm spinnaker is in transit . I found a very nice used one on CL that was purchased from BWY for a M26 and only used a half dozen times before he sold the boat. very nice guy to deal with and we made a deal for the halyard and relocation kit, sheets, etc. as package deal. worked out well for both of us.
Today I'm doing preliminary work with the goal of installing a short internal bowsprit. the first order of business is to redesign the forestay anchor. holy crap I can not believe that Mac would have built this this way, but it sure looks to be OEM from top to bottom. I always thought it was odd that there was only one bolt showing in the hull which I figured went to secure the forestay, but after I get inside there I also see this haphazardly bent chunk of SS that doesn't even lay flat on the inside of the hull where that one bolt goes through. the upper end is free floating where it goes through a slot in the upper deck. the only reinforcement at the slot is a SS "cap" that's pop riveted on the outside.
I have some SS strap ordered to fabricate a new system that will branch out near the inside of the upper deck and bolt to both sides of the hull. the bowsprit will need to go between the legs of the new one. the current single leg design is right in the way.
The beat goes on...............
. I found a very nice used one on CL that was purchased from BWY for a M26 and only used a half dozen times before he sold the boat. very nice guy to deal with and we made a deal for the halyard and relocation kit, sheets, etc. as package deal. worked out well for both of us.Today I'm doing preliminary work with the goal of installing a short internal bowsprit. the first order of business is to redesign the forestay anchor
. holy crap I can not believe that Mac would have built this this way, but it sure looks to be OEM from top to bottom. I always thought it was odd that there was only one bolt showing in the hull which I figured went to secure the forestay, but after I get inside there I also see this haphazardly bent chunk of SS that doesn't even lay flat on the inside of the hull where that one bolt goes through. the upper end is free floating where it goes through a slot in the upper deck. the only reinforcement at the slot is a SS "cap" that's pop riveted on the outside. I have some SS strap ordered to fabricate a new system that will branch out near the inside of the upper deck and bolt to both sides of the hull. the bowsprit will need to go between the legs of the new one. the current single leg design is right in the way.
The beat goes on...............
[QUOTE=".........
Today I'm doing preliminary work with the goal of installing a short internal bowsprit. the first order of business is to redesign the forestay anchor. holy crap I can not believe that Mac would have built this this way, but it sure looks to be OEM from top to bottom. I always thought it was odd that there was only one bolt showing in the hull which I figured went to secure the forestay, but after I get inside there I also see this haphazardly bent chunk of SS that doesn't even lay flat on the inside of the hull where that one bolt goes through. the upper end is free floating where it goes through a slot in the upper deck. the only reinforcement at the slot is a SS "cap" that's pop riveted on the outside.
I have some SS strap ordered to fabricate a new system that will branch out near the inside of the upper deck and bolt to both sides of the hull. the bowsprit will need to go between the legs of the new one. the current single leg design is right in the way.
The beat goes on...............
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[/QUOTE]
My old V224 has (had) the same setup. Thousands of boats were probably made with the same arrangement.
Must not have been too awful dangerous.
I've since changed it anyway due to the anchor roller becoming the fore chain plate....
Today I'm doing preliminary work with the goal of installing a short internal bowsprit. the first order of business is to redesign the forestay anchor
. holy crap I can not believe that Mac would have built this this way, but it sure looks to be OEM from top to bottom. I always thought it was odd that there was only one bolt showing in the hull which I figured went to secure the forestay, but after I get inside there I also see this haphazardly bent chunk of SS that doesn't even lay flat on the inside of the hull where that one bolt goes through. the upper end is free floating where it goes through a slot in the upper deck. the only reinforcement at the slot is a SS "cap" that's pop riveted on the outside. I have some SS strap ordered to fabricate a new system that will branch out near the inside of the upper deck and bolt to both sides of the hull. the bowsprit will need to go between the legs of the new one. the current single leg design is right in the way.
The beat goes on...............
...........................
[/QUOTE]
My old V224 has (had) the same setup. Thousands of boats were probably made with the same arrangement.
Must not have been too awful dangerous.
I've since changed it anyway due to the anchor roller becoming the fore chain plate....
Yes, you're right of course. It's been a terrific boat for us and we do love it. perhaps I was a bit harsh. I was just surprised to see what appears as a lack of pride in construction of that piece of hardware. lots more good things on the Mac than bad things for sure.
Well now you went and did it....... I had my plan for a bowsprit all worked out and you go and give me this whole new idea
.Actually I could take some design elements of your system and make a base to attach a stand up block for the tack line, right off the bow ........................... hummmmmmmm . My short bowsprit idea would put the tack line forward another 6-8" however, and gain that clearance from the slightly overhanging pulpit..... I need to go stare at the bow a wile longer, but the neighbors are already starting to talk.