Keel Envy

Oct 31, 2012
464
Hunter 2008 H25 Lake Wabamun
It's a well known fact that not all sailboats are created equal, especially when it comes to those, hidden from view appendages, called keels and centerboards. Boats that are well endowed below the waterline may have an advantage over those that have less. Keels and centerboards are designed for two basic functions: To keep the boat right-side up and to prevent the boat from being blown sideways. Very few hulls (if any) have the ideal keel design that performs both functions perfectly, while some just don't even come close. The 2007 Hunter 25 shallow draft keel provides adequate stability but falls a bit short in terms of pointing performance.

To improve upwind performance, I figured that a forward mounted centerboard could do the trick. My inspiration came from two dramatically different sailboats with retractable bow centerboards, the Haber 32CA Cutter and Wild Oats XI racer. Of course, I was not going to do any hull surgery, so my only option was to mount it out in front.

The design calls for a symmetrical lifting centerboard, suspended below the bowsprit and hinged on the bow eye hook. While lowered, the centerboard needs to be held tight against the bow to maintain lateral stability when sailing to windward. Lateral stability is maintained by exactly matching the concave back of the centerboard stem to the convex bow profile and holding it firmly in place by two lines running up and over the bow gunwale then back to a cleat in the cockpit. On a downwind run, the centerboard is lifted out of the water by a line attached to a block on the bowsprit. The concave joint on the centerboard is lined with neoprene for a tighter fit and to prevent wear.

In addition to improving the pointing ability, this added frontal appendage reduces lee helm when flying my Code 0 and Jib simultaneously. The following video shows the build project and the unit in action. It looks a bit strange when out of the water but works fine when lowered!

I'm looking forward to your comments.

Andre Bachman
 
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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I have pondered such an application for years. Nice to see someone else footing the bill for research. Actually, on a boat, it seems like a car having front wheel steering versus rear wheel steering.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Well wow. Lots of thought and effort in the construction of that! Kudos!

Some questions:
Most time you see something like that, its been added to correct a hydrodynamic flaw in the boats balance. What were you trying to fix?
Have you been able to quantifiably measure any change (good or bad) in performance? Its possible that upwind angle might be better, with a loss of boat speed.
What NACA foil profile did you use?
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,092
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Interesting and keep us posted. Pondering if the bow attachment was beefed up for that. Also removal would be required when hauling out.
 
Oct 31, 2012
464
Hunter 2008 H25 Lake Wabamun
Thanks for you comments and questions.
Jackdaw,
Initially, my goal was to just improve the pointing ability of the shallow drafted Hunter 25 design. It was pretty obvious that, compared to other deeper drafted boats I sail with, the Hunter is unable to point as well. With this addition, I estimate to have gained around 5 to 8 degrees to windward. In addition, and perhaps even more beneficial, lee helm has been reduced and a better balanced feel has resulted. After lengthening my bowsprit from 24" to 36", lee helm was more noticeable. Now the boat feels much better balanced when reaching with my Code 0. I'm not sure if hull speed has been affected but will carry out more tests next season to determine that.
The NACA foil profile I used was 0014 (I have to admit that my choice of foil profile was strictly based on what looked reasonable for the job, nothing more).
Dave,
I did not beef up the existing bow attachment as it really only needs to hold the centerboard in the up position. When lowed and tightened into place, all forces are transferred to the bow profile which is very strong due to its shape. The unit can be removed in about one minute by simply pulling the hinge pin out and stored inside. I do not leave it attached when moored to prevent wear by the mooring lines.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,759
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
incredible craftsmanship. I love seeing work like that.

I'm not sure if hull speed has been affected but will carry out more tests next season to determine that.
I can't see that having any effect on hull speed but, it would add to the skin friction. My guess is it's advantages to steering and pointing would far out weigh the extra drag.
Did you have any formula you were working from? Something to calculate depth or lateral resistance profile? Or, did you just go with what felt right and fit your boat?
It kind of turns your boat into a boat with deep plumb bow and full keel without the displacement.

I'm still blown away by the woodworking.:wow3:

-Will (Dragonfly)
 

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
1,199
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
That'll kill your PHRF. j/k. Looks like you aren't afraid to tackle modifications to the basic boat. Good on you for what looks like a nicely sculpted appendage. How did you finish the plywood structure? Did you put a layer of fiberglass on it? I didn't notice in the video.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
OK, so drop a wing on it to gain some lift to help the boat plain or set it up in a upward V shape, so only the leeward wing is in the water lifting. That would improve righting stability.
Rob Legg, the designer of my boat has suggested adding a wing that would stick out of the hull to improve righting stability on my boat. So far, no one has dared hack a hole in their hull to try it. Modifying your design would allow one to try it without corrupting the hull.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,759
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
set it up in a upward V shape, so only the leeward wing is in the water lifting. That would improve righting stability.
That would be an interesting idea. The leeward wing would only provide righting force of it was still leeward of the center of gravity while on a heel. Otherwise, it could conceivably work against the righting force. It may need to be a long foil to stay leeward of that center. However, I can certainly see it helping to lift her over her bow wake and near or up on a plane.
In either case, a great deal more force would be placed on the joint.
- Will (Dragonfly)
 
Oct 31, 2012
464
Hunter 2008 H25 Lake Wabamun
Did you have any formula you were working from? Something to calculate depth or lateral resistance profile? Or, did you just go with what felt right and fit your boat?
No formula, just sketched out a few different design options until one looked good (maybe a little bit of scotch helped me with this)
 
Oct 31, 2012
464
Hunter 2008 H25 Lake Wabamun
How did you finish the plywood structure? Did you put a layer of fiberglass on it? I didn't notice in the video.
I used one layer of fiberglass roving in a diagonal direction but didn't take any photos of that phase.
 
Oct 31, 2012
464
Hunter 2008 H25 Lake Wabamun
What's the ~weight of the completed centerboard?
Good question, I will get back to you on that. As you can see, I tried to keep the internal SS frame as light as possible by drilling out cookies without sacrificing strength. Overall, probably a bit overbuilt.
 

Bosman

.
Oct 24, 2010
346
Solina 27 Wabamun, Alberta
I have seen this modification in person and it is looking really good! Would this be the first ever Hunter 25 "Mini Maxi" ?
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I can't see that having any effect on hull speed but, it would add to the skin friction. My guess is it's advantages to steering and pointing would far out weigh the extra drag.
It will have a big impact. Two reasons.

1) Extra frontal area. While its somewhat hydrodynamically shaped; you can't avoid the fact that its frontal area is about the size of a canoe paddle. Imagine dragging of of those alongside your boat in light/medium air.

2) It breaks up the hulls laminar flow in the the absolute worst place imaginable. From the bow to at least the mid-point of the boat, the waterflow over an unadulterated hull is laminar, and low drag. The attachment will break the flow right at the bow, and create drag-inducing swirls that will not reattach for some time.

Like I said in my first post; I'm all for thoughtful well executed experiments like this. But the actual full results are very hard to determine.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,759
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Hull speed is expressed as 1.34 X the square root of LWL, or length of waterline.
That is not a value that will change by dragging or changing shape. It's just an optimum value that is determined by an effort over speed where the curve of the graph has been shown to change dramatically for displacement boats in a consistent way.
How hard it wool be to push the boat to hull speed is a different issue.
- Will (Dragonfly)