Opinions On In-Mast Furling Main

[donvanv]

We have a Beneteau 36CC with in mast furling, and love it; that is when it works. We purchased it used and do not know how smoothly the main worked when new, but now it doesn't come out very smoothly. Will have to play with the in/out haul lines to coax it out. Seems that if not wound snug inside the mast it will get bunched up against the opening when trying to pull it out. But very easy to wind back in and of course reefing is easy.

 

[donvanv]

Just want to add that our Beneteau is a French built. Not sure if any US made have that as an option.

 

[Gunni]

There appears to be a direct relationship between the age of a roller furling mainsail system and the number of problems with it's operation. Bagged out sails, worn out furling line, improper lead location, friction, etc. You are due for a total systems analysis.

 

[jviss]

We have a Beneteau 36CC with in mast furling, and love it; that is when it works. We purchased it used and do not know how smoothly the main worked when new, but now it doesn't come out very smoothly. Will have to play with the in/out haul lines to coax it out. Seems that if not wound snug inside the mast it will get bunched up against the opening when trying to pull it out. But very easy to wind back in and of course reefing is easy.

My guess, purely speculative, since I have no real-world experience with these, is that either you are not furling it properly, or the sail has become baggy with age.

My understanding is that, to get a good, tight furl, one need have the boom at the correct angle, slightly above horizontal, and to keep tension on the outhaul as the sail is furled. If the sail is blown out, baggy, then I suppose nothing short of re-cutting it, or replacing it, will help.

 

[JamesG161]

My understanding is that, to get a good, tight furl, one need have the boom at the correct angle, slightly above horizontal, and to keep tension on the outhaul as the sail is furled. If the sail is blown out, baggy, then I suppose nothing short of re-cutting it, or replacing it, will help.

Right on point, as was Gunni.!

The Angle will match your main sail's cut which is NOT normally 90°. If your Foot to Luff sail cut angle is say 80° then your boom angle is = 90-80 or 10° off horizontal. Plus let your boom "float free" buy releasing your boom vang [if you have one] and main sheet while pointing into the wind to FURL. That way your are NOT forcing the main sail to furl, but allow furling at it's natural cut angle.

The outhaul tension is minor with a new mainsail.

Also find the "sweet spot" fixed Halyard tension to allow your swivel bearings to rotate freely [leech tension control] .

Once set, easy in and out.
Jim...

PS: Refer to the link in my post#22 above for many more inputs.

 

[uncledom]

This is what my original main looked like. It could be VERY finicky going in and out due to the bagging which caused it to fold on it's self which shows up as the crescent shaped wrinkles. I replaced the original sail with a laminate tri-radial. It is Challenge, Pentex scrim, Double taffeta. It is thinner and much light in weight. It moves amazingly well in and out although it is actually a much stronger sail that doesn't stretch. It was pricey but it should have a 10 year useful life span at least. It makes the boat perform so well I would replace it tomorrow if it failed and it's only 3 years old, although in truth it looks like the day it was made. The boat heels much less as the sail can be truly flattened whereas the original Dacron had so much stretch it was impossible to do so. I have easily driven the boat to hull speed on many days with the new sails. I sail on many days when people motor. Newer, proper sails are a joy.

 

[seadaddler]

Unciledom
I was interested who was the maker of your sail and what year is your boat.
My 2007 H-36 and still using my factory U.K. Sails and no jamming.
Nick

 

[DayDreamer41]

We have yet to have any issues with our furling main sail, the sail is by Doyle, has vertical battens and is the original sail dating back to 2007. Many good points have been brought to light with respect to boom angle both horizontally and angle with respect to the wind. We always furl the Sapphire's main on a port tack while heading up at approximately 15 degrees off the nose, boom traveler is set 15* to starboard to help ensure the sail rides into the mast on the starboard side of the slot in the mast, with the boom at approximately 10* from horizontal.

 

[uncledom]

Nick,
I use Z sails out of Stamford CT. The main sail was already shot by the time I bought the 2006 Hunter 41. I couldn't tell you why it was so stretched but it was. So the first thing I did was buy a new jib which believe it or not was in worse shape and then a new main. The boat has been easier to sail, a breeze to reef and overall problem free since the upgrade. Less heel and the admiral thinks they look good to boot.
http://www.zsails.com/
Wonderful people at Z sails. Two of them are olympic sailing champions.

 

[jviss]

It was pricey but it should have a 10 year useful life span at least.

That's a good looking sail. I'm looking at a boat with laminate sails made by Zsails. The relatively short lifespan of laminates is a concern ('though not a huge percentage of the cost of the boat).
I wonder, though, why you're assuming ten years life. Everything I've read on laminate life is 2 to 7, 3 to 5, 5 or 6 years, that kind of thing. I casually averaged everything I've seen to 4.5 years, figure 7 at at the tail.

Is the age alone a factor? I mean, what if the sails weren't used at all for five years, after a couple of years of use. Would they still be like two year old sails, or now more like seven?

On my end, I'm stupid about the dacron; I just retired a main that was almost 30 years old; it was really baggy, but the fabric, nor did the seams fail in any obvious or dramatic way. My jib is 16. I have a new main, crosscut, Challenge 7.3 High Aspect High Modulus sailcloth, lots of features, and inexpensive. Porbably should have ordered the jib at the same time!

I love the idea of performance, laminate sails, and would love to get a chance to sail them.

Thanks,

jv

 

[FastOlson]

Some really helpful comments about sails in this great thread. I wonder how many owners have older/baggy mains that kill performance as well as make furling more difficult?
It seems like we all "get used to" and fail to notice the slow loss of speed and increase of heeling as our sails age... perhaps kind of like the old story the frog in the hot water! (but without the death-by-boiling.)

Then there is always someone invoking the "R" word, as tho entering a race has any bearing on it. (sigh)
I guess that we all like/need an excuse for losing -- remember that unless you are doing a distance race, 98% of your racing success will be dependent on your own tactical decisions and minimizing your mistakes in trim and mark rounding.

Well-designed, laminate sails will help any boat sail up to its designed specs.
While we now have a UK Lazycradle system with lazy jacks and a split cover, I have done a long delivery on a big Catalina with a furling main. It never jammed, per se, but took a lot of force to wind the main in or out. That boat did not have vertical battens, but quite a few newer ones do. Our late model furling jib has them and they really put some noticeable drive back into the upper half of the sail.

I figure that furling gear for mains is just getting out the initial production design phase, kind of like jib furlers in the early 80's. Unlike jib furlers, the accompanying main sail has to be maintained/designed to a high technical level to make the system work reliably. Customers like it, so it will continue to improve, albeit slowly, given that sailboats are a small niche market.

 

[Gunni]

Good practice would be to take your sail off every couple of years, take them to your loft and have them inspect the sail for damage and exhaustion.

 

[JamesG161]

Good practice would be to take you sail off

My sail maker said every 3 years. ≈$150 for any restitching and inspection.

Also time to water wash the "spider dung" out of your , non lubrication needed, swivel bearings. I do it every season.
Jim...

 

[uncledom]

The main and jib go back every winter for inspection and storage. It's a couple of hundred dollars. I like the peace of mind knowing they were looked at by a professional and the jib has gotten a "racing rinse" two years. I guess that means I should be unfurling it and hosing it off occasionally. They are three years old and look the same as the day I bought them.

 

[Solarfry]

Adds a lot of weight to mast. Might require adding weight to keel to maintain proper balance. Not a big deal. The convenience makes it worthwhile.

 

[seadaddler]

I agree that a real good sailmaker should check out your sails every so often.
I did do some successful racing a few years but both sails were getting beat up and needing repairs often and did stop racing this last year and stick to long cruising trip more often.
I have some friends who raced there Hunters with inmast with many replacing of sails and did not go back to battens in there inmast sails only because they said the battens were more harder to use when racing or cruising.
Nick

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I have had bad experiences with some furling mainsail systems for sure, but they weren't Furlex/Selden.