Not getting to your intended destination when you want is part of sailing. No need to be paranoid just be prepared with food, water and navigation instruments and lights. The auxiliary engine alone may not have the power to move against wind and current so using the sails could be necessary. If there is excess wind reef the main and choose a favorable course. There is no anxiety when you know you have food and water and that you will eventually reach your destination. When day sailing there is nothing wrong with sailing upwind and then downwind. Work your way to sailing in high winds by practicing in increments; 10 knots, 10 to 20, 20 to 25 to 30 and then 35+. Reef your main and choose a favorable course even though it could be longer in distance. All that matters is average speed towards destination.
The Paranoid Sailor
- Thread starter Daveinet
- Start date
Your minor trepidation in high winds (I wouldn't call it paranoia) can be more related to the circumstance than a change in confidence. A few years ago, I was single handing on a day where wind gusts were probably topping out over 30 knots. I wrote about it as my final sail of the year, as it was in early November. I sailed downwind and had about 6 miles to slog upwind. It took me about 30 minutes to head upwind and methodically reduce sail, very carefully and slowly. I wasn't certain that I was going to bash into the wind and waves for 6 miles when I got started, but once everything was stabilized and I was moving forward, I didn't mind the tedious progress and getting soaked by the spray occasionally, so I just continued until I got back to the marina.
A few weeks ago, Sue and I went out on a day that made her nervous to begin with, just because of the high wind (mid 20's knots?). It was out of the south and we don't have any option to start out by sailing upwind, because we are at the south end already. We made a couple of broad reaches, very comfortable at high speed, except that our single gybe was a bit scary. Finally, as the waves were building, one of them (probably aided by a powerboat wake) boarded our stern with a little bit of water. We have low freeboard, but it actually took me by surprise and I have to say that I was startled into just a momentary fright. Sue said, "that's enough, we shouldn't get too far away". If I was alone, I probably would have reduced sail and bashed my way upwind. But, the effort that is required shakes Sue up a bit too much, and with an engine that gives her comfort, she would think I'm insane to not simply drop sail (roll up the jib - now that we have a furler) and motor in. On Lake Hopatcong, bail out options were normally so close that she never had those nerves. Now, surrounded by shallow water to run aground on and no easy place to hide from the wind, she is far more nervous when the wind gets loud and the boat seems to shake as the sails are luffing for a moment. I simply have no desire to enforce my will in these circumstances. Perhaps over time, we'll pick a time to do it, but I'm not in a hurry to choose the wrong circumstance.
A few weeks ago, Sue and I went out on a day that made her nervous to begin with, just because of the high wind (mid 20's knots?). It was out of the south and we don't have any option to start out by sailing upwind, because we are at the south end already. We made a couple of broad reaches, very comfortable at high speed, except that our single gybe was a bit scary. Finally, as the waves were building, one of them (probably aided by a powerboat wake) boarded our stern with a little bit of water. We have low freeboard, but it actually took me by surprise and I have to say that I was startled into just a momentary fright. Sue said, "that's enough, we shouldn't get too far away". If I was alone, I probably would have reduced sail and bashed my way upwind. But, the effort that is required shakes Sue up a bit too much, and with an engine that gives her comfort, she would think I'm insane to not simply drop sail (roll up the jib - now that we have a furler) and motor in. On Lake Hopatcong, bail out options were normally so close that she never had those nerves. Now, surrounded by shallow water to run aground on and no easy place to hide from the wind, she is far more nervous when the wind gets loud and the boat seems to shake as the sails are luffing for a moment. I simply have no desire to enforce my will in these circumstances. Perhaps over time, we'll pick a time to do it, but I'm not in a hurry to choose the wrong circumstance.
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I suppose one other thing to mention is that this lake was lined a few years back with very large rocks to prevent erosion. There are small coves to duck into, but the entrances are lined with rocks that usually require lifting the keel to prevent scraping. You always stay close to the windward rocks, just to buy yourself space if anything goes wrong.
The bad part is that it is not just wisdom and caution that drives, this, but rather worry - kind of like an older grandmother.
The bad part is that it is not just wisdom and caution that drives, this, but rather worry - kind of like an older grandmother.
Dave,
In your comments and story, it seems there is an underlying question about acceptable levels of risk and the emotions, confidence, fear, worry, anxiety, etc. that is associated with the risk. If that is the case, then it is really a personal decision about how much risk is too much for the rewards. Fundamentally there are 2 ways of addressing the risk issue, 1) how to mitigate the risks involved, and 2) how to manage the thinking and emotions associated with the perceived risks.
Others have presented a number of ways to mitigate the risk, such as learn more about sailing, sail with others, develop skills, etc. The more challenging issue is managing the perception of risk and the emotions and cognition that go along with risk. If any of us said to you that sailing is without risks, we'd be be lying or delusional. Risk perception changes over time with experience and knowledge. The first high wind experience you enjoyed and probably didn't fully understand the risks. The second experience you didn't enjoy and now have a different perception of the risks involved in sailing. Let me give you an example.
Back when I was courting my wife, we decided to sail across Lake Ontario for a long weekend in Kingston. Susan had limited sailing experience, but is sort of adventuresome. When we left the wind was about 15-20 with seas running 4-6 feet, not unusual conditions for the Lake and ones that the boat and I had sailed in before, she had not. About 3 or 4 miles out on the lake, she turned to me and said, "So, if you fall overboard, what should I do?" It was her polite way of saying, "WTF, are doing out here, the risk level is too high!" About a minute later we headed back and had a great sail and spent the weekend at the dock. A dozen or so years later we were planning to cross the lake, a front was coming through and I had been watching it. I was hesistant because I've sailed through enough T-storms to not want to do it again. By now Susan's risk assessment had changed and we took off motoring until the front passed and we enjoyed beautiful sailing in 15-20 knots with 4-6' seas in the front's wake.
Keep sailing, keep pushing your limits a little at a time, as much as you are comfortable. And rest assured, you will run aground, your motor won't start someday, an unexpected storm will pop-up, your favorite hat will blow overboard and beer will be spilled. Sailing is a great pastime, one that simulates mind, body, and heart. Learning to manage all the pieces is a big part of the joy.
In your comments and story, it seems there is an underlying question about acceptable levels of risk and the emotions, confidence, fear, worry, anxiety, etc. that is associated with the risk. If that is the case, then it is really a personal decision about how much risk is too much for the rewards. Fundamentally there are 2 ways of addressing the risk issue, 1) how to mitigate the risks involved, and 2) how to manage the thinking and emotions associated with the perceived risks.
Others have presented a number of ways to mitigate the risk, such as learn more about sailing, sail with others, develop skills, etc. The more challenging issue is managing the perception of risk and the emotions and cognition that go along with risk. If any of us said to you that sailing is without risks, we'd be be lying or delusional. Risk perception changes over time with experience and knowledge. The first high wind experience you enjoyed and probably didn't fully understand the risks. The second experience you didn't enjoy and now have a different perception of the risks involved in sailing. Let me give you an example.
Back when I was courting my wife, we decided to sail across Lake Ontario for a long weekend in Kingston. Susan had limited sailing experience, but is sort of adventuresome. When we left the wind was about 15-20 with seas running 4-6 feet, not unusual conditions for the Lake and ones that the boat and I had sailed in before, she had not. About 3 or 4 miles out on the lake, she turned to me and said, "So, if you fall overboard, what should I do?" It was her polite way of saying, "WTF, are doing out here, the risk level is too high!" About a minute later we headed back and had a great sail and spent the weekend at the dock. A dozen or so years later we were planning to cross the lake, a front was coming through and I had been watching it. I was hesistant because I've sailed through enough T-storms to not want to do it again. By now Susan's risk assessment had changed and we took off motoring until the front passed and we enjoyed beautiful sailing in 15-20 knots with 4-6' seas in the front's wake.
Keep sailing, keep pushing your limits a little at a time, as much as you are comfortable. And rest assured, you will run aground, your motor won't start someday, an unexpected storm will pop-up, your favorite hat will blow overboard and beer will be spilled. Sailing is a great pastime, one that simulates mind, body, and heart. Learning to manage all the pieces is a big part of the joy.
So, I don't think I agree with the strategy to act on the inferred "risk assessment" of a neophyte when that assessment is based on reaction to unfamiliar conditions rather than on a full appreciation of the risks. It's like allowing a person's fear of, or discomfort with, heeling to scotch a cruise or day sail when there is, in fact, virtually no risk of capsize, etc. A better reply would be, "Hon, I'm not going to fall overboard; and neither are you. But in any event, here's how to stop the boat from sailing; here's where we are, here's how to use the VHF for May Day, and in the meantime, toss me that life ring", etc. In other words, answer the question.
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The 4 stages of competency:
Unconsciously incompetent - Does not really know what they do not know
Consciously incompetent - Aware of what they still do not know, and its a lot
Consciously competent - Knows a lot, but as to think a lot about what to do
Unconsciously competent - Does not have to think about what to do.
Unconsciously incompetent - Does not really know what they do not know
Consciously incompetent - Aware of what they still do not know, and its a lot
Consciously competent - Knows a lot, but as to think a lot about what to do
Unconsciously competent - Does not have to think about what to do.
KG,
Part of the conversation was exactly what you suggested. But it was clear that Susan was uncomfortable and not feeling confident in her abilities to rescue me or get help for her. We were also facing another 7 or 8 hours in boisterous off shore conditions. At times we would be more than 25 miles off shore and support from either the USCG or the Canadian CG. Continuing that trip might well have soured her on sailing and our relationship. Spending a couple hours sailing in boisterous conditions near shore with the hope of rescue helped to build her confidence. It worked, her she is a few years later:
Staying with the risk assessment paradigm, her assessment and mine were clearly different. In this situation it was better to attend to her assessment than mine. There are other times when that is not the case, for example tacking out of the harbor I will head much closer to the break wall than she likes, in this case my assessment out ranks hers. It's all about balance.
Edit/Update: Told Susan about this thread. She agreed that we made the right decision and today, some 10 years later, she would not have hesitated to cross the lake. I'm hoping that it is because she has more confidence in her skills and the boat's ability than a desire to find out how to call for help after I've fallen overboard.
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Reminds me of the four categories of time management.
Not urgent, not important!
Urgent, but not important!!
Important, but not urgent!!!
Urgent and Important!!!!
Not urgent, not important!
Urgent, but not important!!
Important, but not urgent!!!
Urgent and Important!!!!
I'm certainly not an advocate of putting friends and family into situations they are not comfortable with. I would not take my wife or anyone on a long sailboat trip if I thought the conditions would be too uncomfortable for them or discovered that to be so along the way, so there would be no joy. That's one thing, and I get that. I'm also not keen, as I said, on letting folks conclude that the risks are greater than they actually are due to their own discomfort or lack of situational self-confidence by tacitly agreeing with them by my own actions, etc. I'm not trying to say unequivocally that that is what you are effectively doing here; but it sort of appears that way by your description.
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jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,226
Similar to:
The four categories of Old Man-agement.
Not urgent, not important! -- WORK
Urgent, but not important!! -- Beer
Important, but not urgent!!! -- I think I got to go...
Urgent and Important!!!! --- I got to Go.. I got to GO.....
The four categories of Old Man-agement.
Not urgent, not important! -- WORK
Urgent, but not important!! -- Beer
Important, but not urgent!!! -- I think I got to go...
Urgent and Important!!!! --- I got to Go.. I got to GO.....
I developed a very simple rule that we *always* follow. Always means it's a non-negotiable rule. If either of us is uncomfortable with the thought of doing something we don't do it. Simple as that.
This very much reminds me of what I've gone through over the past seven seasons of sailing solo on my boat. Now, it's all second nature! Tks for the excellent statements.
When that stops I will probably be Unconscious.
_____
As Captain, SAFETY of your boat and crew is Paramount, not Paranoid.
Jim...
What we found out with our boat...being a shallow wing keel cruising boat, our Seaward reaches a point with wind and waves, where sailing to a destination directly upwind is a lesson in frustration due to being pushed back. Attempting to motor upwind is likewise frustrating, as the yanmar 1gm10 won't make much progress. So unless we're just out having "fun" in those conditions (ie, we actually want to get somewhere), we motor sail (even if it means only the main up on the second reef). Between the 2, we make good progress (albeit slow), and it's way more comfortable than trying to motor into a chop. The combination does what neither will do effectively on it's own, and we feel much more in control than just motoring alone.
Most times we sail upwind fine (new sails have really helped)...but there is a point of no return. Our previous boat was a hunter 23.5, and it reached that point much sooner. It was much more easily overpowered.
Most times we sail upwind fine (new sails have really helped)...but there is a point of no return. Our previous boat was a hunter 23.5, and it reached that point much sooner. It was much more easily overpowered.
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This may be a divergence, but I'm interested about this point. We have no problem with powering our boat through wind and chop because we have plenty of power, but I find that when motoring, I want to turn the boat directly into the wind to keep from getting doused with water with every wave. We don't have a dodger, so if we angle off just a little bit, the spray soaks us. I can avoid this discomfort for the most part by motoring directly into the wind (not necessarily the waves) so that the spray is off to both sides.
I've not tried motor-sailing in these conditions. Obviously, if we raised a sail to motor-sail, we would have to bear off just enough to avoid luffing. If we are healed over enough, will we avoid the spray or would we still get soaked? Something tells me that we would still get soaked with every wave, so motor-sailing may not do very much to make it more comfortable. Sometimes I try to get Sue to go below so that she can stay dry, but she usually refuses .... preferring to complain, instead.
We have an odd relationship. The advantage to motor sailing is being able to point higher into the wind and with the sail up, the motion is dampened, there is less rolling from side to side. This makes for a more comfortable ride. Almost anytime we are motoring due to lack of wind, we put the mainsail up.
Sue is smart woman, going below when the boat is rocking and rolling is a prescription for sea sickness.
As for getting doused by waves, there are 3 choices, a dodger, good foul weather gear, or enjoy the showers.
Sue is smart woman, going below when the boat is rocking and rolling is a prescription for sea sickness.
As for getting doused by waves, there are 3 choices, a dodger, good foul weather gear, or enjoy the showers.
I added a 4th choice , believe it or not, a scuba diving mask for driving rains.
A few times the side blowing, horizontal rains were blinding me. The mask keeps the rain out of eyes.
Jim...
Good addition! Still get wet, but at least you can see where you are going, sort of.I added a 4th choice , believe it or not, a scuba diving mask for driving rains.
A few times the side blowing, horizontal rains were blinding me. The mask keeps the rain out of eyes.
Jim...
I seem to recall the Volvo Ocean Race sailors using ski googles in the Southern Ocean and high latitude sailors use goggles and masks.