Jib and lifelines interference

[teqmod]

Hi All, as you may have seen from prior few posts I am extremely new to sailing but I am getting out there. I took some of the ASA classes last year and picked up a project boat that is seaworthy but has been neglected for some time. One thing on this boat that I do not remember dealing with on the class boats is the jib sheet and the lifelines/bow pulpit. The class boats also had roller furlings which I do not. The tack attaches to hardware close to the deck. The sheets have blocks that attach to a rail on the edge of the deck, same basic area as the stantions that support the lifelines. With anything but a close haul the jib is going over the pulpit/lifelines. I believe from what I have read this is called "skirting" and is supposedly normal. For the sheets though they need to be run under the lifelines to utilize the jib in any point of sail except for a close haul. I can't imagine that the sheets should be over the lifelines and thus interfering with the sail but I also cannot think that re-configuring the sheets each time you go from a close haul to a close reach makes a lot of sense. Currently I wun it to a close reach as that is about as far as I can go but this limits my ability to point closer to the wind.

Anyone have advice/suggestions on this?
What do most of the experienced sailors who have come across this do?

 

[Roland5048]

Can you run your jib out and take a picture of the sheet configuration? That would help alot. You can probably do this in your slip or even on your trailer if it is trailered.

 

[Jackdaw]

You're sheeting from the wrong place. On 25.5 there should be a jib track and car that runs parallel to the lifelines just behind the shrouds

 

[Gunni]

Some people try to fly a 150 genoa on those boats and they sheet it to a block clipped to the toerail. Believe the original was a 100 or 110 and designed to sheet to the car track.

 

[Joe]

The quick fix is to rig a simple barber hauler to pull the clew inside the lifelines while leaving the sheets outside. It should be adjustable and have a large enough clip (SS snap hooks work well) so the sheet will easily slip through... that way you can leave it attached when tacking upwind (if you have one on each side) then unsnapped when reaching, allowing the sheet to play out away from the boat.
While you're sailing with this rig.... compare your boat's pointing, with and without barber hauling. Don't use the apparent wind angle (masthead fly) but rather by comparing compass courses when close hauled. If there is a noticeable difference... then you should consider installing an inside track, as Jackdaw recommends. If there is no noticeable difference then you'll probably decide that it's not worth bringing the sail inside anyway.... yeah, less work!... which is what I did on my boat years ago. Boat speed is the more important factor anyway. If you have a VMG feature on your gps, use it to determine your upwind progress.

Another idea, is to raise the sail's tack with a pendant.... assuming there's room up top.....which will lift the height of the foot of the sail, making it easier to bring the sail in over the lifelines without skirting it... which will save you a trip to the foredeck.

You still have a lot to learn about your boat and how you want things sorted out. The time you put in experimenting now will be paid back when the time comes to order a new sail.

 

[Ron20324]

One, you can disconnect the lifeline from the pulpit if there is a pelican hook there. Or, if the pelican hook is aft on the lifeline, turn the lifeline around so the pelican hook is at the pulpit for easy disconnect, and maybe move it to the lower lifeline attachment point (which is what I did on my B323.) I always wondered why, when sail shape is so important, that the OEM sail drapes over like that. My next jib will be cut so it is above the pulpit.

 

[teqmod]

You're sheeting from the wrong place. On 25.5 there should be a job track and car that runs parallel to the lifelines just behind the shrouds

The only thing there is the toe rail outside the life lines. I do not see where a track was ever in place in the past. Pictures will probably be best but I am unable to go out to the boat this weekend unfortunately.

 

[Jackdaw]

The only thing there is the toe rail outside the life lines. I do not see where a track was ever in place in the past. Pictures will probably be best but I am unable to go out to the boat this weekend unfortunately.

You can see the track in this picture. You don't have that?

 

[teqmod]

After searching the images online of my boat I came across one that shows the job track. The wood is there but no track/car. The wood is in rough shape so looks like I need to replace it and install a new track/car assembly. Pics to come of the current config but here is what I found online that appears to be what I am missing.

 

[teqmod]

You can see the track in this picture. You don't have that?
View attachment 137661

Just the wood, no track/car system. I will swing by and grab pictures this weekend but will not have time to hook up the jib to take a picture of the sail in place.

 

[shemandr]

If I am understanding your OP you're concerned about the foot of the jib or the sheets laying over the lifelines when sailing off the wind? This is the case on many boats and by itself causes little harm. You can't often see the lifeline imprint on the foot of a jib. On some boats they drop the forward most lifeline down to the bottom of the bow pulpit to mitigate this. That also mitigates the reason to have a lifeline there.
Skirting is when you are trimming the jib in for upwind work and you need to lift the foot of the jib over the lifeline. Not all jibs need skirting. Some jibs only need skirting after some tacks. It depends on the size of the jib and the clew height. If the jib gets caught on the lifeline before you have it trimmed in to your desire for going upwind, it needs to be skirted. On boats with a crew someone can simply lift the sail over the lifeline sometimes needing slack on the sheet to accomplish this. If you are sailing solo you can luff up for an instant to backwind the jib, slack the sheet some and let the wind blow the jib inside the life line, and then trim the sheet in tight and head off to your close hauled heading.

 

[teqmod]

If I am understanding this correct the following picture would be the correct way to run the lines

Or course I do not believe the traveler and track came originally on the boat as I have found a few other images from sailors out there where the track is not in place as well.

 

[Gunni]

That photo illustrates the method for screwing up a tack and removing a forward hatch cover!

 

[teqmod]

That photo illustrates the method for screwing up a tack and removing a forward hatch cover!

Ha ha I was more referring to the leeward side of the configuration. This isn't mine, just a random picture I found on the internet.

 

[teqmod]

This configuration is very similar to what I see on my boat now. No track and/or cars.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

That photo illustrates the method for screwing up a tack and removing a forward hatch cover!

I've done that often enough to find that it DOES screw up the tack, but I've yet to find any damage to the hatch cover. It DOES result in a very wet interior when not paying attention to the building conditions.

 

[Jackdaw]

Your first picture is correct.

That 2nd one is very bad. If Hunter shipped that boat like that (sans track) they should be ashamed.

 

[teqmod]

Your first picture is correct.

That 2nd one is very bad. If Hunter shipped that boat like that (sans track) they should be ashamed.

The more I have looked around and asked others with these boats, the more I am finding what I believe is that Hunter did not have tracks and the second picture is how they came. I found a guy local to here that has the same boat with tracks and I am going to go take a look at it sometime in the next couple weeks.

 

[Joe]

Forget everything I said earlier.... You need to install a proper jib track. You can still use the toe rail block for downwind.... but not having a jib car track is absurd.

 

[SailormanDan]

My 1981 Hunter 27 did not come with a jib car track. The blocks clip to the toerail like in the second photos and the sheets run outside of the lifelines. That's probably a big reason they say they don't point well, but I (and 2 previous owners over 36 years) didn't know any better and I sail it anyways. I'm a cruiser, not a racer, and jib car tracks aren't even on my list of boat projects at this point.