Winch Bolt Removal

[SirMichael]

I'm a proud new owner of an '88 Hunter 28.5, it's in pretty good shape.

However, I'm trying to remove the two Harlow self-tailing winches for the jib to lubricate them. I've already re-greased the halyard winch (3/16 allen head in the middle). However the two self-tailing winches have a very thin headed 1/2" bolt in the winch handle hole, and I've discovered that it takes a narrow walled 1/2" socket. I have a socket with a 1/4" drive that does fit. Problem is, I can't seem to hold the outer shell in order to remove the bolt.

I tried to use a screwdriver propped up against the ridges against the tail, but the ridge just broke off when I tried to put pressure on it. Any other ideas on how to get the winch bolts out?

Do I dare remove the bolts from underneath and take the whole winch off so that I can bring it home to work on it?
Mike

 

[ggrizzard]

Yes. Otherwise Neptune will gladly receive the parts that fly off as you disassemble the winch while aboard.
Save time... take it off the boat!

 

[whatfiero]

It may not come off easily because bolts may spin in under winch and if po or Hunter who used a lot of 5200 to glue down buy a strap wrench or use your belt or even a ratchet strap around drum

 

[SirMichael]

"because bolts may spin"...

That hit me last night, if the self tailing winches or anything like that halyard winch, they have a Phillips head on the top side and will probably just spin. I tried a wrench strap around the base of the bill, but that wasn't strong enough to hold. I may have to try wrapping rope or something around it and died off to the cleat. Seems like quite a challenge. My other concern is that the half-inch socket I have which is thin-walled, has a quarter inch drive. Not very robust.

Do you suppose it would do me any good to take a torch along and try to heat up the bolt?

Mike

 

[woodster]

put an impact driver on the socket and try loosening it that way...also i don't know if you have right hand or left hand threads on that bolt might be good to find out.....

 

[Jim 5757]

Have you tried a impact driver on that central bolt? A little vibration makes a big difference when trying to break a stuck fastener loose.

 

[SirMichael]

I have an impact screwdriver that I will have to find and try. It's one that has 1/2 inch drive that you put a socket on and then hit with a hammer.

What I'm thinking about trying is to use the port side winch to pull a rope that goes over to the starboard side winch and tie that off to a cleat. My only concern is using the impact screwdriver may not be as effective if there's any give in the rope.

I may drive up to the boat and try it this morning.

Mike

 

[pateco]

I have an impact screwdriver that I will have to find and try. It's one that has 1/2 inch drive that you put a socket on and then hit with a hammer.
Mike

I think Jim 5757 meant something more like this.

 

[Jim 5757]

Exactly! Looks like Woodster Pateco & I concur. We have the Hitachi brand. What a lifesaver

 

[pateco]

Exactly! Looks like Woodster Pateco & I concur. We have the Hitachi brand. What a lifesaver

I have the Hitachi as well, Posted the Ryobi since it is the cheapest.

These tools are incredible. If you get the drill chuck and socket adapters for it they can do an amazing amount of jobs.

 

[woodster]

he may be able to do it with a hammer type impact driver and not have to spend the money on a battery powered one even though a battery powered one is nice to have

 

[SirMichael]

I have something like the following that I'm going to try.
Biggest problem is finding a narrow walled socked that will work. The one that I have is a 1/4 inch drive, Rather cheap.
I'm concerned that the adapter won't hold, but I'll try it... I'll let you know.

Mike

 

[woodster]

they make step down adaptors for that 1/2 to 3/8 ...3/8 to 1/4

 

[whatfiero]

We 40 and a little tapping will get it and I believe it's lefty loosey but work bolt back and fourth

 

[SirMichael]

Well, I did get a chance to work on trying to loosen the bolts in the winches, but they wouldn't budge. I use the jib sheet rope to cleat off one end, routed around the starboard winch and then to the port winch and cranked it tight. This held both winches from turning.
I used my impact driver to try to loosen the bolts, and even tried going the opposite direction, but the most that I've managed to do is to ruin the two sockets that I brought (cheaper ones, 1/4 inch drive). The Barlow #23 winch manual shows an allen screw, I'm guessing that a PO changed to a stainless steel bolt (or from the factory?). I don't see where the bolts could be reverse threaded... Even tried soaking with penetrating oil. (I haven't tried heat yet.)
I think that my next move is to either find a "thin wall" socket (.670 OD) 1/2" (3/8ths drive) or try to have an existing socket turned down on a lathe and try it again. I found that I could get a lot of torque with the impact driver, but the tools weren't up to the challenge. I may also try to build a tool to use the two holes in the top of the winch, to hold it in place, although using the jib sheet to hold them worked well (very low stretch on the ropes).

Both winches are working OK, so I'm not in a great hurry, just wanted to make sure that they were greased, probably been a LONG time since they were cleaned and greased. (The thought: "If it an't broke, don't fix it" has crossed my mind...)

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Mike

 

[SFS]

I would take out the top ring with the "Barlow Australia" writing on it, and see what help that might bring. Here's how, if you don't have the tool that originally came with the winch:

Put a winch handle in the winch. Take a bolt, machine screw, nail, or similar (I just use a machine screw) and insert the screw into one of the two holes in the ring. (Just place it in the hole, doesn't matter if it doesn't go very deep.) Slowly turn the winch handle counterclockwise until the lever of the handle comes into contact with the screw, then continue turning the winch handle. The screw exerts sideways pressure on the hole, turning the chrome ring, and allowing you to remove it, as it is threaded. The barrel of the winch should not turn, but if it does your hand pressure will be enought to resist the unscrewing action on the ring. You may then find you have more room, or other parts lift out and the problem looks different. DON'T drop anything overboard.

Hutton Winches, LLC in Australia supports Barlow and Barient. The phone number is +61 2 9623 2448. You can email a really helpful guy named Alan (sales@huttonwinches.com) for exploded diagrams of most of the models they made. Some parts are also still available. If you email with questions, be VERY specific about the model number of winch, how many speeds, whether it is self-tailing or not, etc. They made multiple versions of the 23, not all of which were two-speed, despite what some people will tell you. Don't ask me how I know, but there is a long thread on it here somewhere.

A google search should get you a manual or diagram/parts list, but make sure it looks like your winch before you start believing in it. As I said, they made lots of versions of the 23. Good luck. PM me if I can help.

 

[Joe]

I agree with SFS, you'll need to remove the ring over the self tailing arm. It works like a deck fill plate... need a special tool... or a small punch to loosen then unscrew by hand.

 

[SFS]

Or my method.

 

[SirMichael]

Thanks guys, I will try it next time I'm at the boat which should be later this week.
At this point I don't quite understand how the top comes off ( I have been into the other winch which is not self tailing) , but the difference must be because of the self tailing top. But I believe I understand what you are suggesting.

Mike

 

[SirMichael]

OH!!! I see what you are talking about! I found a YouTube video on a Barlow 27 winch that has the same basic construction. It appears that the bolt that I've been working on doesn't even have to come out.

Many thanks!

Mike