Halyard knots

[Gunni]

OK, so slightly different subject - Jib/Genoa clew attach knots. I have always used a bowline (a left hand bowline) to attach my Genoa sheets. Because I want to be able untie them at the end of the season, or if I have to take my Genny down. Do not want a one-piece Genoa sheet. I have never had the lazy sheet shake loose...but now I'm worried.

 

[Apex]

APEX,
....
Sounds like that was a nightmare for you & I can guess it was.
....
We all learn as we go forward, better luck in the future pal.........
The good news is, that there are a multitude of proper knots for all applications.
CR

YEP, No Worries Capn Ron, just an old 5gal bucket. It WAS an eye opener, as we used this as an MOB drill, unsuccessful as the recovery was, it did teach us about
1)keeping an eye out on the victim, the bucket while still partially floating did not have much visibility and was quickly lost. 2)any bowlines are now secured with the extra half hitch, and if I am concerned with security, choose a different knot.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Yea, exactly why experts (not just me) recommend not using for any situation where the knot can come off load. Any given individual of course might not have experienced it, but it pays to look at collective experience.

Like doing this search: http://bfy.tw/5kaV

I've had Bowlines shake loose when used on a jib clew. I don't do that anymore. I use this

 

[Ken13559]

Wrong Ron, never. Maybe you're talking about a different thing. Never use a bowline to tie a halyard to a shackle.The bowline has a long-known and documented history of loosening when shaken off-tension. I would never personally trust a bowline in a place where I could not see the knot.

I agree with Jackdaw. I, on couple of ocassions had the bowline come loose after some shaking. Now if I use bowline I would put a half hitch on the bitter end just to add a level of assurance it won't shake off that easily.

 

[jeffclown]

I agree with Jackdaw. I, on couple of ocassions had the bowline come loose after some shaking. Now if I use bowline I would put a half hitch on the bitter end just to add a level of assurance it won't shake off that easily.

I use bowline knots all the time and don't have much trouble, but they can come loose as mentioned. A half hitch by Apex or Ken on the bitter end should help - or see also the water bowline at animated knots (I bought the app for convenience on my phone): http://www.animatedknots.com/bowlin...png&Website=www.animatedknots.com#ScrollPoint . This puts a clove hitch into the knot. I think it's still not the best for halyards, but the water bowline could have saved Apex's bucket (or MOB).

 

[Gunni]

I've had Bowlines shake loose when used on a jib clew. I don't do that anymore. I use this
View attachment 123338

Soft shackle? You are so modern! I buy those things just to puzzle over their genius.

 

[Jackdaw]

Soft shackle? You are so modern! I buy those things just to puzzle over their genius.

They take about $4 in dyneema and 10 minutes to make! When at home I keep my rigging kit in the living room, and make them while listening to music or TV. ;^)

 

[Jackdaw]

A couple of people asked me what I thought of the bowline in general.

In general, I am a huge fan of the bowline. It's the #1 sailing knot, and if you want on my boat you better be able to tie it. It might save your life, or the boat. I practice it (and others) constantly and can tie in one in about 3 seconds, with my eyes closed, and behind my back.

But I also know it's limitations. There is no universal knot; they all have limitations. Knowing this and knowing what knot to use is just part of the game. Don't fall in love with something without knowing how it can let you down.

 

[Gunni]

So what would you tie off your jib/Genoa sheets with. I'm looking to keep my front teeth and do not use shackles? Can I trust a soft shackle when it comes off load?

 

[Jackdaw]

So what would you tie off your jib/Genoa sheets with. I'm looking to keep my front teeth and do not use shackles? Can I trust a soft shackle when it comes off load?

On the 260, which has a non-overlapping jib on a furler, we luggage tag the sheet to the clew. We never change that sail.

On the First 36.7, where we swap sails during races, we use bowlines. The bowman also likes the ability to re-run a messy sheet tangle from the bow side. But we're careful to not flog them. Keep the lines tight and not flogging and you're OK. But then again, its not a safety of life issue. If someone died if they ever came off I would find another plan.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

So what would you tie off your jib/Genoa sheets with. I'm looking to keep my front teeth and do not use shackles? Can I trust a soft shackle when it comes off load?

As I posted earlier- I use this. .Have used it for years and have never had it come loose

 

[Jackdaw]

As I posted earlier- I use this. .Have used it for years and have never had it come loose
View attachment 123472 View attachment 123474

That's clever. But because the sheet is still one piece, I don't see a real advantage of that over a straight luggage tag. Thoughts?

 

[BudGates]

That's clever. But because the sheet is still one piece, I don't see a real advantage of that over a straight luggage tag. Thoughts?

Would this "luggage tag" you mentioned be the same as a "cow hitch" aka "girth hitch"? If so the advantage that I see is being able to swap headsails without having to re-run the sheets.

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

Looks to me like a section of stopper line whipped on to the bight of the folded sheet allowing the the connection to be broken right at the cringle without unreaving the sheets from the jib blocks to pull the ends through like a traditional luggage tag. I like it.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

That's clever. But because the sheet is still one piece, I don't see a real advantage of that over a straight luggage tag. Thoughts?

My jib has reef points that reef it down to storm jib size. I can move the sheets up or down in less than a minute.
Also when shifting from the (normal) working jib, to the Genoa, takes about the same time. Genoa is seldom used here. I really bought it for sailing on the east coast with the lighter winds there

 

[marke14]

In our sailing classes we were taught to use a bowline for the attaching the jib sheet to its clew. As a matter of course I try not to flog the sails but it happens sometimes. We haven't had one come lose yet but of course I have very little sailing experience compared to most of you guys ...

 

[Jackdaw]

My jib has reef points that reef it down to storm jib size. I can move the sheets up or down in less than a minute.
Also when shifting from the (normal) working jib, to the Genoa, takes about the same time. Genoa is seldom used here. I really bought it for sailing on the east coast with the lighter winds there

I can see that. Like I said, a cool solution!

 

[Davidasailor26]

As another data point on bowlines - Using a bowline is not acceptable on belay lines at a nearby rock climbing gym because of the chance of loosening. Double bowlines are acceptable but figure 8 follow throughs are preferred (as they're easier to visually confirm correctness). Personally I use bowlines for sheets, dock lines, and halyard shackles buy would not go aloft on one, given that there are better alternatives for that.