Buying sailboat

25yearslater · Nov 19, 2015

It's not crazy at all to buy a boat without sailing it. It's a sailboat. On top of that it's an old sailboat. Any problems this particular boat has will be equally if not more apparent on land. Shot cores, banged up bottom, rotten wood are all the same whether in or out of the drink. Sailboats aren't notoriously fast so a test drive isn't like taking a GT3 out on the track for a few laps. It comes down to what you want to do with your boat. If you want to escape the myriad of maintenance issues more than likely to pop up a newer boat is a better candidate. If you can handle the nickel and dime costs that are endemic to this type of boat you can spread it out over time and go sailing and probably have the time of your life. If you get loopy like I did you can spend a couple years and thousands of dollars to restore this type of boat. You can always sell it if the whole sailing thing isn't for you although you will probably lose money. At least you will know if it is indeed for you. Best wishes on your decision.

Kermit · Nov 19, 2015

Take a road trip with the owner down to the sunny South. You'll both be glad you did. (I'm not kidding.)

Benny17441 · Nov 19, 2015

The only thing that would be hard to gauge on the trailer is the swing keel and its operation. Because of the age of the boat you would want to ascertain it is still in fairly good condition as the safety and stability of the boat would be affected. Ballasted swing keel repairs are difficult and costly. In lieu of a sea trial you may need to gauge the seller's honesty and then ask him a few questions and see if his responses satisfy you. You would want to know how smoothly is the winch and cable mechanism working for lowering and lifting the keel. You would also like to know that there is no excessive lateral play at the keel's pivot point and that there are no water leaks along the keel trunk. Look under the hull to see the condition of the keel itself as far as rust or nicks. Find out if in that long list of improvements if the lifting cable was replaced or serviced and if any work was done on the keel. He can either say that the keel would need some work in which case I would walk away from the deal or he may say that it is working great in which case you have to decide what degree of confidence it imparts. Check the sails, run the engine, look at the rigging, get up on the boat and walk in the cabin top looking for soft spots and survey what electronics it may include. The basics are a depth sounder, a battery charger and a vhf radio.

agprice22 · Nov 20, 2015

There are several good books to read on assessing a used boat. However, this is not a super complex boat: hull, deck, standing rigging, boom, mast, running rigging, motor, fuel tank, battery, wiring. Run through it all carefully, step by step. Check the function of every piece of equipment.Ask the owner to show you how everything works. Trace the lines, wires, stays, shrouds, etc. Take pictures to look at after the purchase. Make lists of the parts. How are the sails? Are they crisp, clean, whole?
Look for discoloration in the interior wood or cabin beneath the chainplates and bulkhead. The one thing that will ruin this purchase is a rotted deck. Water from above destroys more boats than anything. It leaks into portlights, hatches, stanchion bolts, chainplates, The hull is solid glass, so unless you see cracks or dents or buldges, it is likely solid.
Follow the previous advice on the keel, winch, etc.
Next... Take a class on sailing! You will love it. Take the ASA 101 class nearest you before you start on your own 25 ft boat.
Learn this: sailboats require work and parts. They cost money. But the labor is one of love and fulfillment. When it stops being that, sell your boat.

shemandr · Nov 20, 2015

How great of a deal? I've been following used boat prices of that vintage in the 28-30'' area and they are asking in the vicinity of $10,000. A 25' swing keel would top out, I would think, at about $6,000. A great deal would be half that and I'd guess that's high. I haven't followed the centerboard market because that's not what I'm looking for. But there's a nice clean Capri 22 wing keel for sail here for $7,000. It sits. It's just not going to sell at that price.
Normally in used boats you want something clean without any of the usual defects like a soft deck or a bad bottom. But most buyers don't want to pay extra for sails, electronics and upgrades the owner did. The rule of thumb is those upgrades can make the boat more sellable at the higher end of the range but do not extend the price above the range. You shouldn't pay more than what you can turn around and sell it for.

justsomeguy · Nov 20, 2015

shemandr said:
How great of a deal?

Finally, the proper question!

shemandr · Nov 20, 2015

Here's a Yacht World search. Most of these are keel boats.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...783+3976&is=false&pricderange=$5000+-+$10,000

Parsons · Nov 20, 2015

It's not crazy to buy a small boat sitting on the trailer, if the price is right. I have bought a couple like that, and they floated!

As noted, by shermandr, a 35 year old boat (!) trailer sailor is not worth more than a few thousand. Even if the previous owner (PO) loved the boat to the point of replacing everything (this happens with boats more often than you would think), it just is not worth more than 4 or 5,000 because there are a hundred more such boats around the shores of Lake Michigan waiting. Also, with trailer boats, you don't have to buy it where you live so the geographic search is much broader. That Ohio or Illinois boat can be in your back yard after a 12-hour round trip! Just make sure to have a mechanic examine the trailer bearings and brakes before you get it up to 70 mph.

On the topic of costs and because you're new, I will quote the wisest advice I've ever been given -- "there is no such thing as a free / cheap boat". These things are holes in the water you pour money into, so you'd better budget in advance. Not trying to discourage, just don't want surprises. This site is great for giving advice (which is free), but the other things will cost money. First, to transfer ownership and buy any basic safety equipment (fire extinguisher, VHF radio, life jackets, etc.), you'll need about $1 - 2,000, depending on how much you get with the boat deal. For a trailer boat in the north, I suggest you budget the following per season (about 6 months): Insurance ($125), winter storage ($300), maintenance - lines, sails, things you will break, etc. (10% of boat cost, but closer to 20% in the first year) put 10% in a boat account annually because some things (sails, busted rudders ...) are expensive but you only do them every 10 years. Good luck, and keep checking in. We'd love to know how it works out!

cb32863 · Nov 20, 2015

Check the deck core, check the chainplate penetrations, check the blukheads, check the sails, check, check, check. I had a 1977, feel free to go back in time in my blog about that experience. And I know this is an O'Day owners section but, as a former owner, I wouldn't buy a 25 with a centerboard. Plain and simple. If you do decide to buy it understand that there is a myriad of maintenance on boats this old, not just O'Days. Most boats this old will have issues. Doesn't matter how much lipstick is on it. I have swapped bulkheads, recored deck, swapped out turn buckles, even the center board. Trunk was all swollen as well so that made no difference. You have to be able to get that centerboard down or it will point even worse. Hoping I don't get cursed for my honesty and experience.

Kings Gambit · Nov 20, 2015

grtlakes said:
I have an opportunity to purchase a beautiful, well maintained 1978 Oday 25 swing keel.
I look forward to any responses!

For the uninitiated: You always have "an opportunity" to purchase.... It's always a buyer's market on boats; there are always more boats for sale than there are buyers. So, this one, and all such "opportunities", belongs to the seller. It's his opportunity, not yours. Look at it that way. Also, in my opinion there's only one way to "get a deal", and even that one is highly circumstantial, on a boat. That is on a relatively new boat, say less than 5 - 8 years old, where you get the thing for a 20% or higher discount off the seller's remaining mortgage. (That is, a discount big enough to cover sales tax plus knock down 2 or more years on mortgage principal.) Otherwise, you're paying only market price; i.e., what the seller can get for it after the new-boat mortgage has been "paid off"; say on a boat more than 20 yr old. Clearly, there are not many "deals" to be had. So, don't hurry--you're not missing out on anything. There'll be a boat for you in the spring-time as well.

Hydro Therapy · Nov 21, 2015

If your confident that the boat is solid and the deal is good then buy it. I've purchased 2 Odays within the last 3 years. Both of which I purchased out of state and trailered home. The first one I purchased in December. It sat in my yard until summer. It made for a long winter, anxiously waiting to use her but I have no regrets.

Sunbird22358 · Nov 21, 2015

Benny17441 said:
The only thing that would be hard to gauge on the trailer is the swing keel and its operation. Because of the age of the boat you would want to ascertain it is still in fairly good condition as the safety and stability of the boat would be affected. Ballasted swing keel repairs are difficult and costly. In lieu of a sea trial you may need to gauge the seller's honesty and then ask him a few questions and see if his responses satisfy you. You would want to know how smoothly is the winch and cable mechanism working for lowering and lifting the keel. You would also like to know that there is no excessive lateral play at the keel's pivot point and that there are no water leaks along the keel trunk. Look under the hull to see the condition of the keel itself as far as rust or nicks. Find out if in that long list of improvements if the lifting cable was replaced or serviced and if any work was done on the keel. He can either say that the keel would need some work in which case I would walk away from the deal or he may say that it is working great in which case you have to decide what degree of confidence it imparts. Check the sails, run the engine, look at the rigging, get up on the boat and walk in the cabin top looking for soft spots and survey what electronics it may include. The basics are a depth sounder, a battery charger and a vhf radio.

The seller has given this potential buyer incorrect info, this O'DY 25 would be a KEEL/CENTERBOARD boat, O'DAY NEVER built any "swing-keel" boats. The CB is only lightly ballasted, just enough to allow the CB to lower easily (CB weighs about 40-50# max). So, it has very little if any effect on stability, just directional control and pointing ability. No winch, just a light (5/16" Dacron) line to raise/lower CB. If the CB pendant (lifting line) is original, it might be a cable/line hybrid, but replacements are usually totally line. The 25 (like all O'DAY K/CB boats) has a lightly ballasted, fiberglass CB with the majority of the ballast contained inside the molded shoal keel (1825# of lead in the 25). The one exception to this is the 1971-74 O'DAY 23, which had a 1200# cast-iron keel with a fiberglass CB.
Otherwise, I concur with the rest of Benny's advice, although, a depth sounder and battery charger are not "mandatory" items, and the 9.9 Honda most likely has (or can have added) a battery-charging coil.

Kopite · Nov 21, 2015

I bought my boat in Michigan in late October, just in time to pull it for the winter. For me it was a good approach - the seller was motivated not to have to winterize, and I had the whole winter to go over the boat carefully - redoing wiring etc...ready for the next season. In any case, the advice to judge from the owner I think is a good one. My seller clearly was a pedantic sort, and I had every confidence the hull would be as carefully maintained as the upper. Even so, also as advised, you should expect that you'll find some issues to work on. If you can, get all the boat gear included - the cost of winter covers, fenders, decent PFDs etc adds up quickly..

4father · Nov 24, 2015

I bought my O'day 25 about a year and half ago. I love it, but the repair list keeps getting longer. Feel free to reach out with any specific questions. I've been in every nook and cranny.

jcb2 · Nov 30, 2015

Consider hiring Marine Surveyor. Those guys aren't cheap ($20-22/ft) but they will find at least 95% the problems so you know what you're getting into and give you leverage for negotiating. The owner must give you permission to have it surveyed but he/she has no right to see the survey that you pay for unless you want to show it to them.

jcb2 · Nov 30, 2015

I forgot to mention that a "sea trial" is usually included in the Surveyor's price. That makes sure the sails, rigging, steering and auxiliary engine are properly checked and that the hull doesn't leak.