Heavy Weather

Kings Gambit · Sep 29, 2015

Bad Obsession said:
Being on your ears doesn't mean you need new sails.

It could mean that. Sail cloth stretches; period--that's it. Over time it can stretch a lot which "destroys" the efficient shape of the draft of the sail. The draft deepens and moves aft some pushing the center of effort of the sail plan aft. The draft is the part of the sail that experiences healing force. The deeper and further aft, the more healing and pressure on the rudder since the h-force has moved further aft of the point of lateral resistence. This is especially noticeable when going to weather. Everybody with roller furling/reefing now, the one genoa/jib gets used all of the time. Prior, a boat would carry several head sails and thus "spread out the wear" on each of them, etc. Just b/c you can compensate w/ reefing does not mean that your sails are not overly stretched. With new sails of the optimal shape you might be able to stay flatter and hence go faster while driving to windward without reefing

. [Also, you might learn to "feather" if you don't know how already.]

rgranger · Sep 29, 2015

Bad Obsession said:
... If the wind goes against the current it is ugly.

On my way to Tangier...done that.... got wet....

scotmcpherson · Sep 29, 2015

rgranger said:
I agree. I used to be a very timid sailor until I got caught out on the Albemarle is heavy chop one day.... After spending an hour motoring and getting pounded by the chop, I put two reefs in the main, and my storm jib up.... and the boat just sliced through the chop. It was a revelation for me.... It was a great (and very wet) sail. Since then I love going out in 15-25 kt wind. If you can keep the boat moving forward under a balanced sail, it is a lot less work and quite exhilarating.

+1, I like weather too.

Don't get me wrong, a nice smooth day on the water is nice too, but nothing like a bit _it_ in your face.

25yearslater · Sep 29, 2015

I think this would qualify. http://marine.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lon=-78.19042&lat=43.39290#.Vgr4qexViko The interval usually runs about 3.5 to 4.5 seconds.

shemandr · Sep 29, 2015

I can't define "Heavy Weather" but I know it when I see it.
We may get a taste this weekend during our season finale Whitbread XXII.

Crazy Dave Condon · Sep 30, 2015

Bad Obsession;

You know the bay and in a sense have answered your own question. I am glad you are aware of your sailing area and your own boat as many do not know it also has a low freeboard too..

I remember an old friend of mine who too use to sail out of Colonial Beach many years ago who said "If you respect the water, it will respect you. If not, then you will die!"

Daveinet · Sep 30, 2015

scotmcpherson said:
+1, I like weather too.

Don't get me wrong, a nice smooth day on the water is nice too, but nothing like a bit _it_ in your face.

Nothing like making six knots feel fast.

scotmcpherson · Sep 30, 2015

Bad Obsession said:
To give you an idea about low free board, look at the pictures

Is this the right thread?

Not the lowest freeboard I have seen, some home made sailboats built almost like submarines (no bulwarks or life lines, and a tight companionway hatch) have really low freeboard measured in inches.

Crazy Dave Condon · Sep 30, 2015

Everyone has there idea of what is heavy weather. It is one thing to be caught in it and what to do but people react in various ways. Only the owner knows what will be comfortable for him knowing the boat and the sailing area. I know that boat and the area where Bad Obsession sails. He is pretty much knows what to do and when I talk, it is based on knowledge and experience and I use to sell ComPac and sailed in the same area. I will say no more as this thread has gone too far and that's all folks.

rgranger · Sep 30, 2015

scotmcpherson said:
Is this the right thread?

Seems relevant to me...

Jackdaw · Sep 30, 2015

Regardless of freeboard, as long as your boat does not ship water when a wave comes over the gunwale you'll be fine. Cockpits are the biggest problem area on sailboats for swamping, which is why open transoms are now so popular.

Kings Gambit · Sep 30, 2015

Jackdaw said:
Regardless of freeboard, as long as your boat does not ship water when a wave comes over the gunwale you'll be fine. Cockpits are the biggest problem area on sailboats for swamping, which is why open transoms are now so popular.

I don't doubt that's true for sailboats that go to sea, or that race, where in the latter the skipper might be pushing the edge of the performance envelope, so to speak, but in general? I think open transoms are so popular b/c they make boarding & disembarking easier, especially with the boat tied stern to the dock. Serious cruising boats of older designs had all but no "cockpits"; areas very good at shedding water quickly but not comfortable for socializing. If you're going to buy a "social boat" you want a BIG cockpit. But for it to drain quickly enough for safety you have to open the transom. So, people like the open transom for its ancillary benefit of convenience, not b/c most ever anticipate sitting under a half ton of water hoping it will drain away before the next comber crashes on them from above, IMHO! The Bavaria, for example, has a fairly small cockpit in terms of volume; not comfortable with more than 4 people.

Jackdaw · Oct 1, 2015

Kings Gambit said:
I don't doubt that's true for sailboats that go to sea, or that race, where in the latter the skipper might be pushing the edge of the performance envelope, so to speak, but in general? I think open transoms are so popular b/c they make boarding & disembarking easier, especially with the boat tied stern to the dock. Serious cruising boats of older designs had all but no "cockpits"; areas very good at shedding water quickly but not comfortable for socializing. If you're going to buy a "social boat" you want a BIG cockpit. But for it to drain quickly enough for safety you have to open the transom. So, people like the open transom for its ancillary benefit of convenience, not b/c most ever anticipate sitting under a half ton of water hoping it will drain away before the next comber crashes on them from above, IMHO! The Bavaria, for example, has a fairly small cockpit in terms of volume; not comfortable with more than 4 people.

That's probably true. Cruising boat fashion typically follows current race boat tech/design, which is where wide beam and open transoms came from. I'd agree that most coastal cruisers/weekenders don't look at their open transom as a great way to quickly shed a ton of seawater. But it is!

Daveinet · Oct 1, 2015

Probably depends on where the boat was designed. Around most OZ, there are sand bars which create havoc on the waves. Boats designed in that neighborhood will typically be able to shed water rather quickly. That is pretty much how Rob Legg (RL24) got into the boat building business. He started building rescue boats, as he saw many design problems that resulted in sunken boats. My cockpit is semi-open. In the rear, it is only 5 inches tall, so most of the water would run out quickly through the engine well. Its a pretty good compromise, as it limits how full the cockpit could ever get, but you also don't worry about loosing your valuables out the back either. I don't think many American boats pay that much attention to that detail as most are sailed on inland lakes.

Jackdaw · Oct 1, 2015

Daveinet said:
Probably depends on where the boat was designed. Around most OZ, there are sand bars which create havoc on the waves. Boats designed in that neighborhood will typically be able to shed water rather quickly. That is pretty much how Rob Legg (RL24) got into the boat building business. He started building rescue boats, as he saw many design problems that resulted in sunken boats. My cockpit is semi-open. In the rear, it is only 5 inches tall, so most of the water would run out quickly through the engine well. Its a pretty good compromise, as it limits how full the cockpit could ever get, but you also don't worry about loosing your valuables out the back either. I don't think many American boats pay that much attention to that detail as most are sailed on inland lakes.

Modern boat designers pretty much agree/accept that boats don't get pooped by following seas, they get hammered by breaking waves. Therefore, transoms don't help keep the water out, but do help keep it in. Its why high transoms are gone (or are open) on most modern ocean boats.

The transom of the Pogo 12.50 is 13 feet wide and 8 inches off the waterline. We've been out in simply huge seas and never had a drop come in the back.

Calif. Ted · Oct 1, 2015

I don't think many American boats pay that much attention to that detail as most are sailed on inland lakes.

Why would that be ? Most American boats are/were built within spitting distance of the ocean on both coasts. I haven't even seen a lake deep enough to float a boat in years.

Daveinet · Oct 1, 2015

Calif. Ted said:
Why would that be ? Most American boats are/were built within spitting distance of the ocean on both coasts. I haven't even seen a lake deep enough to float a boat in years.

You guys could use some rain. Lots of boats built in the midwest, although not so much any more.

scotmcpherson · Oct 1, 2015

I'll agree there is some great water in the midwest. I lived in Iowa for 8 years and the Miss was a pretty nice body of water, and there are the Great Lakes as well, but there is no way that you can say there are more boats in the Midwest compares to the coast. Anyone who would argue really needs to see how much acreage of coastal Water is covered by docked and anchored boats.

Heavy Weather

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