Have gotten approval to upgrade from a 18' Buccaneer to a 22' boat on my mooring in Plymouth MA. Looking at Catalina 22, Starwind 223 and Laguna Windrose 22. I currently pull my Buccaneer 180 with a Subaru Outback. I'm looking for comments, recommendations, cautions and biased opinions of all kinds. Thanks.
Catalina 22 vs Starwind 223 vs Laguna Windrose 22
- Thread starter mrudman850
- Start date
Looking at the specs on all three boats the Windrose is larger for overnighting, Having owned a Catalina 22 for all most 25 years I will tell you that the years from 86 to 92 is what is called the “new model, it is well thought out for overnighting and is overall heavier than the other two and will take the waves and wind, the earlier years are faster because of the weight being 900 lbs lighter. Of all three boats the Catalina is still made and all of the replacement parts are still supported.
A 22 foot boat, make sure a good trailer comes with the boat. Then it comes down to the nicest boat with the most stuff.
A 22 foot boat, make sure a good trailer comes with the boat. Then it comes down to the nicest boat with the most stuff.
Take a look at the Compac 23. They are built by the Hutchinson Company and they have been built almost the same for 30 years.
They have a fixed shoal draft but you can still get them on the trailer. This means you don't have to worry about moving parts under the water as well.
The layout is great. The V berth is a good size for a 23. It has good accommodations for a boat this size.
They have a fixed shoal draft but you can still get them on the trailer. This means you don't have to worry about moving parts under the water as well.
The layout is great. The V berth is a good size for a 23. It has good accommodations for a boat this size.
A Subaru Outback was mentioned. All of the boats mentioned are going to be WAY heavier on the trailer than what you have been towing - maybe a factor of 3X. My .02.. if you look at those larger boats, you will also have to look at a larger tow vehicle.
Second.
We have a 1981 Catalina 22. We towed her (short distances) a few times with a Lexus RX (Toyota Highlander chassis) rated for 3500 lbs, but fully loaded up for cruising (motor, batteries, water, full coolers, etc.), I think she's a somewhat over that weight limit. We just sized up to a Lexus GX470 (4Runner chassis) rated for 6500. Towing feels much smoother and safer - at least to my relatively inexperienced sense.
I can't compare between the boats you mentioned, but I can say that we're happy with our C-22, and appreciate the easy availability of parts, and the friendly and helpful user community online.
The compac 23 is a similar boat to the Starwind 223 but with cheaper cabin trim and finishes. The 223 has an interior carpeted hull and extensive wood trim with a galley and hanging locker. We have a 1985 Starwind 223 which is our trips boat. We Have done the Florida Keys, Florida's West Coast, Long Island Sound, Cheaspeake Bay, Potomac River, The Outerbanks and some inland lakes. We trailer the boat to distant sailing venues usually for a two weeks trip in the area. The boat is a Jim tailor design with a short fixed, ballasted keel and a center board. We have done two couple trips with very, very good friends and we have been comfortable. We have sailed into Mystic Connecticut under conditions that had 32' boats pinned down for weather. We were pinned down ourselves in Okracoke and in Tangier Island, which we made just ahead of small craft warnings posting. After crossing Plum Gut in the Long Island Sound we developed a lot of confidence for this little boat and she has not let us down yet. We power it with a two stroke Nissan 9.8HP. The boat is heavy for its class and the whole load trailers at around 3800 lbs. which might be over the maximum for your Outback. Since we trailer long distances we use a Navigator as a tow vehicle but if you only intend to do short distances at slow speeds you might be able to do it with the Outback. With the short fixed keel of 1.2' it does require a slightly steep ramp to launch and retrieve. Allow for an increased trailering load as you pull the boat up the inclined plane. Our trailer does have a tongue extension which we have used just a couple of times. Just power slowly out of the ramp as to not hurt the tow vehicle. Sailed a Catalina 22' once and I thought it was a good trailerable boat but felt a lot lighter than the S223. No experience with the Laguna.
I'm new to the list, but wanted to add another boat to consideration. I bought a Rhodes 22 this summer, upgrading from the 'other' Buccaneer 18 (a fast dingy formerly made by Chrysler). My dock neighbor has an older Compac 23 which he also uses to cruise Lake Erie (haven't met him yet, scuttlebutt is he does a couple 3-4 day trips a year). My criteria was convenient reservoir day sailing and a couples weekender that could be trailered to the great lakes. Large cockpit for the reservoir, easy fore deck access, single handling friendly, able to handle shallow water and a real head were on my list. In mast furling has proven wonderful for short sails. I lack time to both sail and repair, so I chose a factory rebuild. After half a season, I have no regrets.
I will upgrade to a bigger tow vehicle, your Subaru would be too small as well.
I will upgrade to a bigger tow vehicle, your Subaru would be too small as well.
We looked at a Starwind 223 back in 1985 and I thought the build quality was very good but did not care for the interior layout and lack of a true poptop for headroom. We bought a Siruis 22 instead. We spend 2-3 weeks at a time cruising our boat on the Great Lakes and we love the interior layout and poptop cabin. As for the Catalina there are a few versions of this boat so not sure what one you are looking at. Tell us what your intentions are. Are you using it for daysailing and weekending or do you plan longer trips? Interior layout may not be that important if you spend limited time overnight. How often will you trailer the boat? If you keep it on a mooring and only trailer it twice a year and the beginning and end of the season you can always borrow or rent a tow vehicle. Why saddle yourself with a larger vehicle if it is not really needed? IMO if you are towing longer distances (100's of miles) you need a vehicle rated for 5000 lbs to comfortable tow these boats that come in at 3400-3800 lbs including the trailer.
I stand corrected. Jim Taylor was the designer for the Precision 23 and that is the boat I intended to compare to the Starwind 223 and not the Compac. I forgot the story but I think some of the molds that were used for the Starwind were latter acquired by Precision and hence the similarity in both boats. Nevertheless I strongly endorse the short fixed keel and centerboard combination for a trailerable boat as it provides the stability of a fixed keel while allowing for easy trailer deployment and retrieve.
As I use to tell my customers, there are many boats out there but look at the ones that will meet your needs and then if you like a boat very much, then buy it as most often you will tend to keep that boat for a long time. It is good many are giving you their opinions. If you intend to pull or trailer all the time, that will make a difference on your selection. For example a wing keel is harder to launch and thus you will need to know your ramps. IF you decide on a Catalina 22 swing keel, purchase the Catalina 22 Sport trailer as it was designed by Ron Frisosky with me there as to a nearly perfect trailer for that but do get it with brakes.
I'll second the Rhodes 22. I have chartered the owner of the company's boat for a 4 day weekend. And then went and got a project Rhodes of my own to fix up (it is still in my yard). The Rhodes is the largest 22 boat you will find. Huge cockpit and the interior is well laid out. The cockpit can be enclosed with a canvas cover and converted into a queen bed.
Got a close up look at a Starwind 223 and am smitten! Seems to be a much better use of space and storage than the Catalina 22 to this novice sailor. Anything I should look at critically before taking a leap?
A funny thing, but one thing that I don't like about smaller boats is that the V-berth comes to a sharp point. It can be uncomfortable, especially if you are sharing it. Having a wide foot at the V-berth is nice. The Compac 23 has a very nice v-berth for a 23 foot boat. I have cruised mine for as many as 8 days and it is okay for that.
In all seriousness, if you can swing it, get a bigger boat. Take a look at the Hunter 260 or the Catalina 250. They were water ballast boats and where they have their issues, they are light to tow, easier to launch, and they have nice cabins.
In all seriousness, if you can swing it, get a bigger boat. Take a look at the Hunter 260 or the Catalina 250. They were water ballast boats and where they have their issues, they are light to tow, easier to launch, and they have nice cabins.
Not too surprising. The starwind is a full foot longer and has a foot more beam. That add up to a huge jump in interior volume.
If you want to go light weight and fast, find an RL 24. The boat weighs 1600 lbs. Weighed in on the trailer with all my junk at 2700 lbs. One thing about the RL is that with a swing keel, the boat sits very low on the trailer. This means less wind resistance. The weight is low, so it handles very well on the road. Ironically, except for on a steep hill, this boat tows much easier than my previous 17 foot American Fiberglass, which only weighed 900 lbs. The AF 17 had the weighted keel below the boat, which meant on the trailer, it stuck up in the wind, which made it pull very hard.
Besides, if you are towing with an Outback, shouldn't you be sailing Australia's favorite trailer sailor.
Besides, if you are towing with an Outback, shouldn't you be sailing Australia's favorite trailer sailor.
Well that's half the equation right there. You have to feel the "love". Check out the trailer, condition of the sails, look for water or signs of it in all areas of the boat. Just pay attention to overall condition if it has been well cared for or neglected. Do some Internet research to see if that boat has any common trouble spot to check.
I would not be too concerned about the boat being long out of production. Most of the common wear items are generic. I have had my boat 30 years and never needed parts from the builder.
Good advice but if you have a hard time finding a Hunter or Catalina in your budget consider looking at a Macgregor D or S Classic (water ballast displacement hull). Still a lot of room and light on the trailer and very easy to launch,
Sumner
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1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac
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