Stand-Up Paddle Boards and "Rights of Way"
- Thread starter Kings Gambit
- Start date
Then they oughta learn it.
Not so hard: one - leaving you on my port side; two - leaving you on my starboard side. Number of toots = syllables in the words (courtesy of BoatUS many years ago for this simple explanation).
... Kermit... are you offering to go and set the anchor for them....:stirthepot::troll:
You know, I've had similar experiences out snow skiing. When you mention it's mostly kids milling about, I have kids when I'm skiing that just do whatever they want. It's a failure to supervise, or parent.
When I was a kid rowing a boat, my Grandfather taught me about the rules of the road. So I also knew to avoid a rowboat when I was piloting our power boat. But at the same time, he also taught me not to dick around in channels and where lots of powerboats would run.
So, when I was skiing once, and a snowboarding kid took me out from behind, my buddy pointed out the kid in the lift line at the bottom. I laid into the kid, and some adult spoke up that he was supervising the kid (not the parent, maybe friend's parent?) Anyway, the adult was like "He ran into you because you were in the landing area of the jump." I replied "I was the downhill skier, I can't see behind me, and the kid should have waited to do his jump when the area was clear!" The adult goes, "Oh. Yeah. That makes sense." So, I had to deal with a DA who was obviously not adequately supervising or educating a kid.
When we are out on our lake, we just know to keep a sharp eye out, because almost NOBODY who rents a rowboat, trolling motor rowboat, kayak, or SUP has any clue what they are doing. Hah, just on Labor Day Monday, I saw a trailer full of canoes in the parking lot as I arrived. I thought to myself, "Great, a dozen canoes full of people who have no idea what they are doing. This isn't going to end well." Sure enough, as I kayaked back to my dock, I saw there was a swamped canoe right out in front of the launch ramp. And then when I was on my boat changing into dry clothes, I heard hysterical screams and tears, only to look out and see it was one of those canoes with 4 girls in it, headed straight at the stern of a boat up the dock. I walked down, and explained that if they paddle on one side of the canoe, it goes the opposite direction. Sure enough, they were then able to turn 90º so that the could paddle back out the slipway. (I'm kinda glad it wasn't my motor they fended off with a canoe paddle...) I just want to know, where was the adult who taught them how to paddle the canoe? Where was the adult who was supervising? And, dear god, who was responsible for getting that swamped canoe dewatered and the kids back in? It wasn't going to be me, I was in a 19" wide skin-on-frame kayak! (Plus, I can't be responsible for educating all the DA's at our lake.) But mind you, if someone is in bonafide trouble, for sure I will render assistance. If I ran into a fisherman whose motor wouldn't start, I would tow him in. Might take a while in a sailboat
Still bothers me when a small sailboat capsizes, and the fishermen just go right past without even slowing down...
When I was a kid rowing a boat, my Grandfather taught me about the rules of the road. So I also knew to avoid a rowboat when I was piloting our power boat. But at the same time, he also taught me not to dick around in channels and where lots of powerboats would run.
So, when I was skiing once, and a snowboarding kid took me out from behind, my buddy pointed out the kid in the lift line at the bottom. I laid into the kid, and some adult spoke up that he was supervising the kid (not the parent, maybe friend's parent?) Anyway, the adult was like "He ran into you because you were in the landing area of the jump." I replied "I was the downhill skier, I can't see behind me, and the kid should have waited to do his jump when the area was clear!" The adult goes, "Oh. Yeah. That makes sense." So, I had to deal with a DA who was obviously not adequately supervising or educating a kid.
When we are out on our lake, we just know to keep a sharp eye out, because almost NOBODY who rents a rowboat, trolling motor rowboat, kayak, or SUP has any clue what they are doing. Hah, just on Labor Day Monday, I saw a trailer full of canoes in the parking lot as I arrived. I thought to myself, "Great, a dozen canoes full of people who have no idea what they are doing. This isn't going to end well." Sure enough, as I kayaked back to my dock, I saw there was a swamped canoe right out in front of the launch ramp. And then when I was on my boat changing into dry clothes, I heard hysterical screams and tears, only to look out and see it was one of those canoes with 4 girls in it, headed straight at the stern of a boat up the dock. I walked down, and explained that if they paddle on one side of the canoe, it goes the opposite direction. Sure enough, they were then able to turn 90º so that the could paddle back out the slipway. (I'm kinda glad it wasn't my motor they fended off with a canoe paddle...) I just want to know, where was the adult who taught them how to paddle the canoe? Where was the adult who was supervising? And, dear god, who was responsible for getting that swamped canoe dewatered and the kids back in? It wasn't going to be me, I was in a 19" wide skin-on-frame kayak! (Plus, I can't be responsible for educating all the DA's at our lake.) But mind you, if someone is in bonafide trouble, for sure I will render assistance. If I ran into a fisherman whose motor wouldn't start, I would tow him in. Might take a while in a sailboat
Still bothers me when a small sailboat capsizes, and the fishermen just go right past without even slowing down... 
But he is not restricted in his ability to slow down or stop. Yeah, steerage can be an issue, but most of the time all that is needed is a willingness to wait.
I wonder what happens if you cannot slow down or stop. Say you're sailing down the channel on a broad reach (lots of people do this) and one or more SUP's are crossing, or are starting to cross, the channel in front of you "in a line of ducks." What then? Do "human powered" vessels have "rights" over a sailing vessel under sail in a channel with rocks on one side, beach on the other, and a whole bunch of other boats coming and going? If anything, a human powered vessel is more like a powerboat than a sailboat in that it can maneuver upwind w/o tacking, it can "stop" itself w/o having to turn into the wind, and can move against a weather current lacking sufficient wind that could move (over the ground) a sailboat in the same direction, etc. Besides, historically, human power was in the role that engine power is now. For example, serving as "auxiliary power" on galleys under oars, serving as "towboats" for sailing vessels becalmed, & serving as tenders to haul stuff (including crew) to and from the mother sailing vessel, etc. How could we come to the notion (have we?) that they should have privileges over sailing vessels under sail just due to ignorance of the operators (and/or their parents), I wonder--do they? That's still not clear beyond "avoid a collision if you can."
And failing "overtaking" there is always your duty to avoid collisions.
On open water, avoiding them under sail is generally easy, and since our speed is generally much greater (6-8 knots vs 2-3 knots), the case is clear. It would be nice if they held course.
If you are sailing down a channel on a broad reach and cannot stop or stay clear of a disabled or slow vessel, it is clear that you are sailing out of control. You had no reason to assume the way would remain clear, and in fact, it didn't. Seems you me it would have been prudent to be a power vessel or take other measures. You can always slow down, at least minimizing a collision.
In harbor circumstances we are all power boats. Again, we are faster and must stay clear. And we can stop.
We are starting from the premise that the paddler is an idiot, does not know which way to go, and may not paddle well. No one has suggested that they are stand-on or privileged in any special sense, only that we are generally faster and smarter and can stop when under power, though often we act as though we cannot. Pedestrians ONLY have the right of way in a cross walk, but we stop to avoid jaywalkers. That is our duty. And who among us has not been a stupid, mindless pedestrian at some point in a shopping center parking lot? Thus, we drive slowly in parking lots. And perhaps they see themselves as pedestrians, when they think at all.
This is not a situation we have to like, just a fact of life. I'm guessing freighter captains have similar water cooler conversations.
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There are also skilled paddlers which you see in the distance or off to the side, crossing channels only when and where prudent.
I should have said cannot stop suddenly and hold position, etc., to allow a crossing. Clearly, a sailboat operator can stop forward motion through the water at least momentarily by blowing sheets and turning into the wind. Also, it's a much simpler task to avoid a disabled vessel, etc., if you know what it is likely to do. With SUP's you don't know what they will do. As said earlier-assume they know nothing; therefore, any action is possible, even turning into the path of the oncoming vessel. A "deer in the headlights" type of thing. In the harbor I'm a sailboat if I'm sailing, period. I may, or may not, be able to switch on my engine to avoid something. Just this summer my starter failed and I suddenly found myself adrift in the harbor after shutting down the diesel (starter burning up), etc. Who's faster has nothing to do ColRegs as far as I can tell. I believe these people are being told that as a human-powered vessel they do not have to keep clear of other types of vessels or even bother with 'em at all. I actually heard somebody say that recently.
Great question -- and a review of the ColRegs don't give an easy answer. Rule 25 talks about lighting such craft (like a sailboat), but the definitions seems to indicate they're neither fish nor fowl - they don't have machinery or sails. A Google search indicates that this is a rich topic of conversation on blogs such as this one, and makes for interesting reading if you don't expect it to resolve itself. Sort of like debating matters of taste over a beer.
As for reaching up a channel in large winds, I was just doing that over the weekend. Entering a river with a no-wake zone (single handing), I found myself overtaking several stinkpots that had just previously roared past me in the bay. I found that releasing a halyard a bit and rolling the jib lowered the difference in our speeds considerably. Assume your boat has similar control lines?
Paddle boarders are pretty easy to avoid but when you have a dozen or so windsurfers that blow by you like you're standing still even though your sailing at hull speed can be a little frightening. I'm always worried one might fall I a don't see them. Waterways are getting more and more crowded.
and then there are kite surfers....
-but usually they are close to the beach.
btw, foiling kites are a thing down here...
-but usually they are close to the beach.
btw, foiling kites are a thing down here...
I always thought of paddle boards as being similar to inflatable lounge chairs; to call them a vessel and to expect the boarder to know the Colregs is unreal. Right of way cannot be taken but needs to be yield; in this case the trawler may have created some confussion by signaling the padler when he was clearly unable to acknowledge or respond to the request. Like swimmers, people in inner tubes and toy inflatable boats the way to deal with them is to go slow, be cautious and ready for anything. Lets get real my friends.
I had missed a page of comments, and it seems there are a lot of hypothetical situations being brought forward but if you can think of a situation that puts you in between a rock and a hard place or hitting a paddle boarder you better steer for that rock.
I think jibes has this right, at least in my home harbor. Google Gig Harbor and you will see the entrance to my home port. There is a very nice public beach on the spit and a few venders who rent paddle boards and kayaks to tourists on the harbor. On a busy summer weekend, the channel into the harbo is full of all kinds of boats entering and leaving. At low tide the channel with enough depth for my boat can dwindle down to a handful of meters in width. Plus, due to some spits, the channel is not obvious to the uninitiated.
Renters often want to go beach on the spit and decode to cross the harbor at the narrowest spot, right in the channel. It is hard enough to get two boats to pass at low tide let alone a gaggle of paddlers. Often the will blithely cut right in front you with no warning. Even at 3-4 knots, it is hard to stop a 40 ft sailboat. At max ebb or flood it is even worse as the current through the entrance can be pretty impressive during a 12 foot tide change.
I get annoyed, but try my best to avoid them. It isn't their fault. I lay the blame directly on the rental companies who seem to offer no instruction as to the do safest way to navigate our Harbor. I really should pay them a visit and see if I can in a very friendly, helpful, non-judgmental way encourage them to provide some education for their customers.
Dave
This post sums up most of the sentiment expressed in this thread. One looking at paddle boarders as people in the water, rather than looking at paddle boards as "vessels" under command of an operator. Respectively, it's absurd in our common sense to view a 14 yr-old kid w/o certification or any other training as the master, or operator, of a VESSEL. But look at bicycle riders. Bicycles are regarded as vehicles the same as cars. A 14 yr old riding a bicycle is not usually a licensed operator and his/her vehicle carries no registration, etc. And the vehicle is human powered. Cyclists are still expected to follow traffic regulations even if they rarely do. Stop at stop signs, at traffic lights, signal their turns, use lights after dark, & yield to pedestrians, etc. They have no rights over automobiles or other vehicles except as defined by traffic laws. And nobody would run over a kid on bicycle just to enforce a "right of way" rule. However, I'm sure even a kid knows to stop at a traffic light at a busy intersection. The obligations of one vehicle to another are defined by the rules of the road--not by how the vehicle is powered or how fast it can go. Bicyclers can be fined if caught breaking the rules, just as a driver of an automobile. I don't think you'd see a group of kids on bicycles spinning doilies at the mouth of a freeway on-ramp, etc.
Now, take SUP operators. We have to avoid them at our own peril b/c they're going slow, operating a human-powered vessel, poorly skilled, ignorant of the "rules of the road", and etc? We essentially allow them to "play" on their water toys now called vessels in the middle of harbor channels or at entrances to coves with impunity b/c they cannot learn what a bicycle rider of similar age knows? A bunch of baloney, IMHO. The next thing is instead of tooting the horn blast, the captain of the trawler might have to stand on the bow of his 18-ton vessel barely at steerage & shouting: "Hi there. Would you girls mind playing over there so I can get my boat into the harbor? Oh, thanks so much. Have a nice day on the water!" Geeze Louise!
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You just need to post the appropriate warning on the bow, when you get 5 you're an "Ace".
