More anchor more mass more problems.

capta · Jul 20, 2015

You didn't mention if you were going to be doing a lot of anchoring, so my response is based on assuming you will be cruising your new 35' boat a bit farther afield than you did on your last boat.
I think you are going to need a bit heavier ground tackle for a 35 footer than 30 pounds. Probably more like a 35# pick and about 50' of 3/8 chain, if you don't want all chain.
IMO you really should invest in a powered windlass.
A lot of folks may disagree, but we saw two boats last season that were in serious situations because their manual windlasses just couldn't get the gear up fast enough, in dire circumstances. One nearly hit us several times and just escaped dragging across our anchor chain because they just couldn't get their gear up fast enough. The captain was up on the bow cranking for all he was worth, pulling possibly 3" of chain with each stroke, instead of 60' per minute with a powered windlass. His wife was doing her best to hold the bow to wind, but in 55+ knots of wind, the boat was all over the place.
As for backing down, if you are paying out the chain by hand, that seems a bit of over kill. Falling back on the wind should be more than sufficient to pay it out cleanly, and certainly much easier on your hands. No need to rush things, especially if you are using your body for jobs that are heavy and dangerous.

Kings Gambit · Jul 20, 2015

At about one pound (lb) per foot (ft) for 5/16-inch chain, muscling it up with a 30-lb anchor at the end is definitely "young man's work." Your "dead-lift" [i.e., when the chain is vertical to the anchor] in 25 ft depth would be over 50 lb initially. I've had to do it [manually haul in chain and anchor] on my boat when the windlass failed with a 45-lb anchor at the end in 30 ft of water: 30 ft x 1.1 lb/ft + 45 lb = 78 lb of dead-lift until a few ft are aboard!! If you cannot power the boat to hove the chain rode up short [vertical], it'd be tough for anybody who's not a clone of Hercules, or Sampson before a hair cut, to handle that much pulling AND lifting in short time. If you have all afternoon, then maybe!!

Either install an electric windlass or switch to 1/2-inch or 9/16-inch nylon rode & consider switching to a Fortress (FX-16) anchor. An electric windlass for chain usually has a clutch-brake that allows you to control the free-fall rate of the anchor and chain. With nylon rode, you don't need that.

Ron20324 · Jul 20, 2015

Of course, running the anchor rode to a cocpit windlass is an alternitive.

31seahorse · Jul 20, 2015

Ron20324 said:
Of course, running the anchor rode to a cocpit windlass is an alternitive.

Wow!!! I never gave that a thought! My achin' back likes that idea. Do you mean we could use one of the winches on the coaming? How do you rig the line? Do you add any blocks along the lifeline stanchions to direct the anchor rode.....On second thought, I guess you don't because the shackle and the chain would not pass through those blocks easily. Do you have a drawing or picture of the arrangement?

Kings Gambit · Jul 20, 2015

Yeah-- when I did my chain pulling "by hand" the second time I used two chain hooks on separate nylon ropes. Pulled anchor chain with one where the rope extended to the cockpit sheet winch; stopped off; then pulled with the other; reattached the 1st one and pulled again, etc., until I could get the dead-lift down to something I could work with using "normal" human strength. Now, I always carry two 5/16" chain hooks in case I have to do it again some day!! Of course, real sailors would just use rolling hitches to grab the chain. [There is no manual recovery attachment on my SL Sprint 1000 windlass and they evidently don't make 'em any more, or I'd have one for this job!!!]

Chief RA · Jul 20, 2015

Dalloway: Don't miss what Ron20324 pointed out. So many people seem to forget what power a windlass has. Chief

Kings Gambit · Jul 20, 2015

31seahorse said:
Wow!!! I never gave that a thought! My achin' back likes that idea. Do you mean we could use one of the winches on the coaming? How do you rig the line? Do you add any blocks along the lifeline stanchions to direct the anchor rode.....On second thought, I guess you don't because the shackle and the chain would not pass through those blocks easily. Do you have a drawing or picture of the arrangement?

See my post above (#25). With a chain hook on a nylon rope led to a cockpit winch (combing), you can pull [winch] back several feet of chain along the deck catwalk at a time.

Deadhead · Jul 20, 2015

Bigger is Better

We spend several weekends a month on the hook in the upper Chesapeake. Whether it is in the Sassafras, Still Pond, Worton Creek, the Magothy, or Swan Creek we rarely have more than 6' or 8' below the keel at low tide. My favorite spot in Still Pond bottoms out at only 2' below the keel.

Even so, using a scope of 5:1 to 7:1, it becomes a lot of rode to retrieve. At least a manual windlass would be most beneficial. You never know when it will be necessary to pull up stakes in a hurry. Also, as has been previously stated, a size up for the anchor is more desirable than a size down.

23irwin55 · Jul 20, 2015

Brake

Thirty pounds of anchor does seem a little light for a 35 footer. Depends on what kind, where, depth and ground you intend use. You might consider a second anchor, they're available used and represent cheap insurance.

I'd recommend you seriously consider a windlass - a 35 foot anything is a big load for backs and hands unaided. In the meantime, get a chain claw and a length of nylon line to act as a snubber when fastened to the bow cleat, and retrieval line to save back, hands and fingers Get it long enough to reach your main or jib winch, as well as to hand line while standing up. Nylon is a lot kinder on hands than chain, even though it requires frequent resets. Let the engine or better yet do the bulk of the retrieval work. A sacrificial wear plate of hardwood or a chunk of marine plastic plank material can save deck and toe rail.

Attached find a quick thumb nail of a 1930s era solution for a combination brake, lock and fairlead for chain. Might be possible to have a local machinist/ welder crank one out with dimensions to suit your situation. Needs a serious backer plate and fasteners, big loads. The flip over feature that lets it work is pretty simple and ingenious.

Be careful.

thinwater · Jul 20, 2015

A modern 35# anchor should be plenty. That is what I have on a 34' cat, with far greater windage. It came with a 25# Delta, which was not enough.

And the notion of 3/8" chain is absurd. 1/4 G43 will do fine. Use a snubber and you will never exceed 50% of the SWL.

Apex · Jul 21, 2015

where did you find the tiny diet coke can?

Ron20324 · Jul 21, 2015

Apex said:
where did you find the tiny diet coke can?

It says "Diet Coke", so that is the diet serving. One Ounce.

shemandr · Jul 21, 2015

Dalloway said:
... it wanted to escape the roller and play about across the top of my bulwarks, resulting in some
Nice gouges. My husband lost some skin to it. Is there some trick to deploying a larger anchor? Is it all about brute strength? I feel that at that weight we need some way to just let it go, but how do you prevent the line from just getting away from you? I need some tips and tricks here.

Are you saying that you hand over hand as the anchor is going down? That's not necessary. I wouldn't try to control it to that degree. Maybe you can flake enough line for the anchor to reach bottom and after lowering it into the water let it go to the bottom.
One of the magazines just did a series on anchoring for those who can't brute strength it. One technique was to launch the anchor from the cockpit. I hope you get to read it. Technique is more important than strength. But a windlass is nice.

thinwater · Jul 21, 2015

Dalloway said:
...Sounds like lots of folks like the electric windlasses.

Yes!

Sounds like you have plenty of anchor. With a windlass you will want all-chain (passing the splice is often balky); given the sailing area, 100' will serve 98% of the time (I'm just down the Bay). I use 1/4 G43 and have far more windage (a 32' cat is like a 40+' mono), so that is all you need. I had a 25-pound Delta (was on the boat for 15 years) and it was nearly enough, so for you the 35-Delta should be good. The 30# Danforth is ridiculous overkill (20 would be enough--I use a Fortress FX-16), but you've got it....

A couple related posts:

Installing a windlass.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2012/03/windlass-transplant.html
Splicing etc.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2011/09/new-anchor-35-pound-manson-supreme.html

Kings Gambit · Jul 21, 2015

Dalloway said:
Just found out the plow anchor we have is 35 lbs not 30. So that's good.

We picked up a 30 lb danforth as a back up. Imhoing to try some chain hooks on spare line that I can run to the winches on the mast is I need them. A windlass may be in the future. Sounds like lots of folks like the electric windlasses.

Downwind Marine has SS chain hooks. Shackle to eye-splice w/thimble on 3-strand nylon of 25-ft length. Can also use as chain snubber when anchor chain is deployed and/or as a stopper if deploying chain in free fall. [That is, might hook the chain at length of 2x the water depth and cleat-off the 3-strand. All chain rode/anchor combination should grab at 2:1 scope in mild conditions.] SS not required for chain hook, but--black iron rusts, of course, and you have to keep cleaning it, etc.

See website below:

http://www.downwindmarine.com/Chain-Hooks-Stainless-p-90891144.html

More anchor more mass more problems.

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