More anchor more mass more problems.

centerline · Jul 20, 2015

how deep are you anchoring?...
how much chain do you have, and do you have any nylon rode spliced onto it?

usually we all look for an anchorage 25ft deep or less.... 30 ft and deeper only in special circumstances and without much surge or wind, unless you have lots of rode... then expect a large swing radius.

you should have the chain/rode stored so that when it comes time to drop the hook, you can let it go.... but only if your moving in reverse so the chain doesnt pile up on top the anchor.

if you are stopped when you lower the anchor slowly, its still highly possible that you are still going pile some chain up around the anchor which is not good.

its always better to be moving in reverse when attempting to anchor....

you do need a bail or better cheeks on the side of the anchor roller to prevent the rode from jumping out... I prefer high cheeks as sometimes I want to purposely move the rode out of the roller. i have a pin that I can insert if needed to keep the line from jumping, but ive not needed it so far..

and yes, unless you have a windlass, manual or electric, a 30lb anchor and chain rode is all about brute strength, especially when picking it up... you can motor towards the anchor while someone draws in the slack gained in the chain, but when it comes time to haul the anchor off the bottom, there is still 20lbs of chain, a 30lb anchor, plus whatever mud is clinging to it.... big boats are just more work than smaller boats, in every aspect

Bad Obsession · Jul 20, 2015

I use to anchor with a 33lb Lewmar Claw and 30' of 1/4" chain. That worked well for my Catalina 30 that I use to have. I never had a windlass so I did this manually as well.

You probably want to add a bail to your roller. That would be a good start.

So when you come into the place you want to anchor motor head into the wind. Allow the boat to slow to a stop and then put it in reverse and back up slightly (to keep the momentum moving aft). Go up and release the anchor and play out the chain down to the nylon rode. Allow the boat to back up until you feel that you are starting to get a bit of a set and then back down on the anchor a little more. Let out the proper amount of rode for the depth you are anchoring in and tie it off. After this back down really hard on it and you should be good.

Picking it up you can usually pull the boat forward until the chain is vertical. Then motor forward, with the rode tied off, and break the anchor out. From there it is pretty easy to get the rest of it up on deck.

It is helpful to have a bucked with a rope attached to the handle to wash everything down. Make sure that your rode will be untangled and run free (best time to do this is when you are bringing it up).

One other trick...When you wake up in the morning pull in most of your anchor rode. This will get some of the mud off of your chain before you haul it in. I will do this before I have breakfast and I will take my time with breakfast and what not. I then go forward and pull in even more right before I start the engine up.

Windborne · Jul 20, 2015

When it comes to outfitting a sailboat sizing-up is better than sizing-down, at least to a point. I don't know your anchoring requirements but your new anchor may just be too big for your vessel and for you. Maybe there was a windlass on the 35 footer, maybe her anchoring requirements were different from yours. There are guides available on-line for sizing an anchor to a vessel. Here is one, http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/technical/anchorguide.htm. Good luck. I tend to believe with a sailboat if doing something is a struggle in normal conditions then there is a better way of doing it.

31seahorse · Jul 20, 2015

Hello Dalloway,
In the upper Bay anchoring in shallow water is the norm. That will limit the amount of chain and line you need to retrieve. As others have said (1) a bail is helpful, (2) in your area some chain, perhaps a boat length, is a reasonable amount, (3) connect to anchor rode that is easy on the hands, (4) pulling in the slack or motoring up to the anchor as you neatly coil the anchor line in the anchor locker helps save your back. From some reading of historic books I think the process is called being "hove short". (5) consider gloves to avoid the loss of chunks of skin and "rope burns" if the helmsperson gets the boat moving faster in reverse than you can control. (6) Develop and practice hand signals to signal the helmsperson what is needed to set or retrieve the anchor. (7) Practice in calm conditions. (8) We keep a bucket and line for mud washing duty. Best Wishes.

31seahorse · Jul 20, 2015

Dalloway said:
Thanks guys. When you are actually dropping the anchor off the bow are you controlling its descent by holding the chain and slowly letting it run out or are you just letting it drop until it hits the bottom and then maybe manually playing out rode?

We do the set and retrieve in as slow a speed as practical. When lowering the anchor I am at the bow and my wife has the helm. I lower the anchor until it touches bottom and I can feel/see the chain or line pay out away from the bow as she motors in reverse. Once sternway is established I signal for neutral and we continue astern until the momentum has stopped or I have stopped it at an acceptable distance from the anchor by looping the line on one of the bow cleats. Trying to halt the boat's movement by hand is a losing proposition in most cases! Marking the anchor rode with colored markers is helpful to judge the amount of line and chain you have deployed. We also use a brightly colored soap jug tied to the anchor on about 10 feet of line so we can judge how far we are from the anchor. That also helps in judging relative position to the anchor as time passes. It also signals other boaters where the anchor is located.

31seahorse · Jul 20, 2015

Dalloway said:
Silly question: are you ever concerned the soap jug float will lift the anchor enough to un set it?

No. The light line I use is long enough that there is slack in the line to the jug. The only way I think the anchor could be unset is if someone wrapped that small line onto their prop shaft. Then both of us would be in trouble! Additionally, I sometimes use a 5 pound window weight on the anchor line to keep the line near the bottom. ( anchor kellet or kettle) That may not improve the holding power of the anchor, but it helps prevent wrapping the anchor line around the keel. We had that happen twice due to tidal changes and/or current. Not a good situation. Adding the jug and line and the kellet does complicate the anchor deploy and retrieval, but in some conditions both are helpful. We do not use them all the time. Sort of a judgement call.

31seahorse · Jul 20, 2015

See new private message I sent.

Gunni · Jul 20, 2015

Do you have a windlass? Is your rode all chain, or rope/chain.

Bob 04 H260 · Jul 20, 2015

I don't know your sailing area, bottom type etc. but I think a 30 lb anchor on a 35 ft boat is a bit undersized. I think Rocna recommend a 40 lb and Manson a 35 lb. for a 35 to 40 ft sailboat, so combined with the chain it is a big lift. Most boats that size will use a windlass for the job.

A possible solution would be to consider a Fortress anchor. They are very light, work best with very little chain and often have the highest holding power on anchor reviews. However they sometimes don't do so well on a reset. They work really well in sand or muck, not good in weeds.

We use a 35 lb Manson, with all chain and a windlass. We still motor up to the anchor when retrieving it. We often use "marriage savers" when anchoring. Experienced cruisers often let the boat drift back as the chain is deployed, then have a cocktail, then back down hard on the anchor to power set it.

We keep a Delta and a Fortress as secondary/backup anchors.

As they say good ground tackle is your best sleeping pill.
Bob

Stu Jackson · Jul 20, 2015

Dalloway said:
Thanks guys. When you are actually dropping the anchor off the bow are you controlling its descent by holding the chain and slowly letting it run out or are you just letting it drop until it hits the bottom and then maybe manually playing out rode?

Control descent. Use gloves. ACE Hardware gloves, not from WM!

This too

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) & Why Swivels are a bad idea http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.msg30400.html#msg30400

NotCook · Jul 20, 2015

Dalloway said:
... Is there some trick to deploying a larger anchor? Is it all about brute strength? I feel that at that weight we need some way to just let it go, but how do you prevent the line from just getting away from you?

Certainly having an anchor windless with a clutch/brake is helpful in that case. We don't like to deploy our 75 pounders and 6/8" chain without using the windless brake just to keep it under control and in the track.

Image what the Navy (and shipping industry) have to deal with. Here is an interesting video of an anchor chain brake test. After seeing this, you'll think yours is a piece of cake! Disregard the meaningless comments. Looks to me like the chain brake did exactly what it was intended to do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAcfaMDcY68

centerline · Jul 20, 2015

Dalloway said:
When you are actually dropping the anchor off the bow are you controlling its descent by holding the chain and slowly letting it run out or are you just letting it drop until it hits the bottom and then maybe manually playing out rode?

there are variations of the simple and basic way it HAS to be done.

given that the ground tackle is big enough and proper for the bottom and conditions, and as long as the chain or line does not get wrapped around or piled on the anchor, and has been payed out between the anchor and the direction the boat is moving in reverse, you cant go wrong.

my variation is, when deploying the anchor I am moving slowly under power in reverse, not just coasting or drifting, and I will let the anchor fall pretty fast as im letting the chain slip thru my hands, and as soon as I feel the anchor hit the bottom I will stop the fall of the chain briefly.... then I will let about 10-15 feet out slower as we are moving away from the anchor....

once I know the chain is not piling on the anchor, I let it go freely (thru my hands, and not caring if it piles on itself) and count the markers as it pays out... when I get to the marker I want, I stop it and quickly snub it down.
the chain will pay out faster than the boat is moving and allow you a few seconds to do this without any load on the chain.

when the boat gets to the end of its slack you will feel a very definite and unmistakeable hook up with the bottom.... at this point there is no need and would be redundant to power into it in reverse, as the momentum of a 10-15,000lb boat setting the anchor is more than what the prop will give you....

its NOT a sudden violent jerk, but a very quick soft slowing then stopping of the boat as the anchor grabs and digs deep.

I always use a 4-1 scope for setting the anchor, and almost always let out more after it has set.
this is much better practice than letting out 250ft and then finding out you have dropped on a bed of grass

.... and after doing this a couple times in sucession, you soon learn to get the anchor set before letting out more than necessary for digging in.

if you cant be quick about snubbing the chain, it may be best to drift backwards and let the chain out in the same manner as I suggested, and it will allow you a bit more time for the task.

keep in mind that the initial snubbing of the chain/rode to set the anchor, can be as quick and simple as wrapping it a couple times around a cleat.
once the anchor digs in, you can then take the time to reset the chain or secure it in whatever device you have to secure it in, but no matter where or how you secure it, if it wont take the power put on it by the momentum of the boat setting the anchor to begin with, it should never be used as the point to ever be trusted to hold at any other time...

Bob 04 H260 · Jul 20, 2015

Everything there is to know about setting anchors, maybe the longest sailing thread in history, very informative thread...

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/photos-of-anchors-setting-126073.html

gettinthere · Jul 20, 2015

I use a SL Seatiger 555 manual windlass with my 65 lb Mantus anchor. I can use the friction clutch to ease the decent if need be.

You can find these windlasses on the used market, very robust.

Alan Gomes · Jul 20, 2015

gettinthere said:
I use a SL Seatiger 555 manual windlass with my 65 lb Mantus anchor. I can use the friction clutch to ease the decent if need be.

You can find these windlasses on the used market, very robust.

Here's a guy on the Ericson list who is selling a manual windlass which, from the photo, looks to be in good shape. He absolutely hates it and wants to unload it. Maybe you'll get a deal!

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...Alameda-to-San-Pedro-CA-on-an-E35-II-Part-III