Adding shore power?

[Jackdaw]

Drhoppy, I did this 4 years ago in my h23. Check my profile for pictures of the shore power. I used a Square D 2-20 amp breaker panel. Still works great

Marine gear is designed to deal with things that household gear is not. For electronics, the big two are vibration and corrosion.

On household stuff the internal contacts will be mild steel, and press-clip together under tension. Both can fail on a wet, salty, constantly vibrating boat.

Marine gear will be chrome plated steel contacts that are ALWAYS screwed together with lock washers holding everything tight.

The marine stuff is more expensive for a reason. More is being asked of it. Or should be.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Jackdaw referred you to a shore panel that I used in the installs of many 260's. Good panel to use.

 

[C Jones]

woodster, thanks for your reply. I did check with 2 master electricians and one of them was marine certified as well before my installation. They told me this was fine for my boat in my situation on a fresh water lake. Without their blessings I might have agreed with you.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Over the years as a dealer, I did at least 700 shore power installs and the breaker mentioned above is what I used. Many marinas do not have 30 amp service. Further more, if you have a 30 amp service installed, make darn sure the total amp. of all the breakers on that system is not over 30 amps. One response was. In addition, make sure the back of the breaker is covered so you do not have anyone particular children sticking their hands on the open wires, etc/... In addition, make sure you have GFI which is now code everywhere and believe me there are many who do not add the cover nor GFI.. I used marine grade 12-3 wire for ease of handling due to the stranding plus it has double sheathing for protection which is heavier covering.

 

[Jackdaw]

woodster, thanks for your reply. I did check with 2 master electricians and one of them was marine certified as well before my installation. They told me this was fine for my boat in my situation on a fresh water lake. Without their blessings I might have agreed with you.

Amazing if true. Did you get that in writing? Might come in handy some day.

Beyond the reasons I mentioned:

Residential breakers are not rated as switches. They are not designed to be turned on and off repeatedly.

The clamp connector are designed for SOLID, not stranded wire

It does not have a built in reverse polarity check. Not a big deal with one-time connected residential gear, but important in marine where you might plug into a different plug every week.

It's not AYBC rated. It will probably fail a survey. Why install something you'll likely have to swap when you sell your boat?

 

[David33852]

As a fellow H260 owner, I've found some great technical information from the "Mistress of the Universe" website dedicated to the H260:
http://kobernus.com/hunter260/index.html

You will find some great ideas about installing electric there too:

http://kobernus.com/hunter260/electric/electric.html

Good Luck!

 

[Jackdaw]

Further more, if you have a 30 amp service installed, make darn sure the total amp. of all the breakers on that system is not over 30 amps. .

Dave,

That's not true, or even an issue in marine or residential installs. It is very common (and typical) for the sum value of all the branch breakers to greatly exceed the value of main breaker.

This is because the breakers are there to protect the WIRE, and not limit power or protect the attached device/load. As the wire/outlet/etc between the branch breaker and the load is rated at 15A, you'll most often see a 15A breaker in place.

Blue Sea now pre-ships any panel with 15A branch breakers, in every case the total of the branches exceed the main.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Jackdaw;

Prior to being a marine dealer, I was an accident reconstruction investigator for insurance companies who worked with fire marshals. They all said when the total sum of the breakers exceeds the main breaker, not only is it against code but anything can happen. I recall two incidents where the total sum exceeded the main breaker and people died involving boats. So when I look at something, I look at the situation from a safety advantage too and nothing others say will ever deter me from that line of thinking involving safety paticuraly around water.

 

[Maine Sail]

Jackdaw;

Prior to being a marine dealer, I was an accident reconstruction investigator for insurance companies who worked with fire marshals. They all said when the total sum of the breakers exceeds the main breaker, not only is it against code but anything can happen. I recall two incidents where the total sum exceeded the main breaker and people died involving boats. So when I look at something, I look at the situation from a safety advantage too and nothing others say will ever deter me from that line of thinking involving safety paticuraly around water.

Dave pretty much every boat on the water above 30' has an AC panel where the breaker sums exceed the capacity of the main breaker. There is nothing in the ABYC standards that limits branch breakers from exceeding the main breaker capacity. This is why you have a main breaker... Below is a very popular bone stock factory configuration for many boats over 30', including factory boats from Catalina and Hunter..

30A Main Breaker = 10GA wire

Battery Charger = 15A Breaker / 14GA wire
Water Heater = 15A Breaker / 14GA wire
Port Outlets = 15A Breaker / 14GA wire
Starboard Outlets = 15A Breaker / 14GA wire

Sometimes a Microwave breaker is also thrown in...

On the land side this is also not a requirement under the NEC Standards..

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Q8. Is there a code limitation as to the total ampere rating of all circuit breakers in a panel? Example: Could the total ampere rating of all circuit breakers in a 100A panel exceed 100A?[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A8. This is not a Code issue. The sum of the ampere rating of the circuit breakers in a panelboard is irrelevant. As a matter of fact, it is very common for the total ampere rating of the branch breakers in a panelboard to far exceed the rating of the panelboard.
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All one has to do is examine this[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Square D 60 Circuit Main Panel Board[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] to realize there is no requirement on land for the branch breakers to not exceed the panel main breaker.

When you consider there is room for 60 circuits/breakers, and the smallest land breaker is 15A, you will quickly realize that just fourteen 15A breakers exceeds the 200A main breaker..... We have over 30 breakers in our 200A panel with the smallest breaker being 15A......

I can nearly guarantee that everyone's home AC panel has breakers that exceed the main panel breaker rating. I can't recall the last time I saw a home distribution panel where the sum of the breakers did not exceed the main breaker...
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[Jackdaw]

Amen.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I received an email from a H 260 owner who clarified for me some things, thus a clarification is needed.

Jackdaw referenced a specific Blues Seas panel #8029 with main and 1 pole. In the past there use to be if I recall a panel with main only which I believe was a 20 amp or it could have been 15 amp.

For the record, I will never compromise on the safety of people related to water activity to include equipment. I am over cautious when it came to electrical and water as I err to again safety. My thrust was referencing that specific panel and the one before it. In addition in the past 40 years I wish you could have been there to see nightmare work done both by professional and individual and then you would understand where I am coming from.

There are other panels that the total sum of the individual breakers do in fact exceed the main breaker when not in use. I erred when I meant to say the total of the amp. in use when the breakers are on should never exceed what that specific panel is designed for again referring to the single breaker panel I was use to and the one Jackdaw referred to. If wired correctly using the proper guage wire, the main breaker would then be tripped as designed.

Once I was asked to inspect a shore power system installed by the owner which was smart on his part. I found single wires with one sheath of different colors which I believe 18 guage used as the main supply coming into the panel. The hot and neutral were miswired. In addition, the owner also installed a home built electrical panel tied with that new panel. Needless to say, I informed him of my findings and he said I was wrong. Later I learned of a fire on board.

Once a nurse new to sailing bought a used boat with a dual battery system installed with four black wires leading to the two batteries with no indicators as to which posts they would go to. In addition a battery charger was added. After she attached the cables one battery blew up in her face. In addition the battery charger was miswired. I once witnessed a 17 year old male electrocuted when in the water touch a metal post that the dock was not wired properly by a certified electrician. It took the marine industry a long time to address a proper color coding of the black AC hot and black DC ground by making standard I believe the black DC ground is now yellow coded.

Once there was a defective main panel which the total amp. demand exceeded the supply cable and you can only guess.

I could go on but you get the picture as I have seen faulty gear added without checking to include new and used, miswired, under guage or wrong equipment used and so on by many who thought they knew how to do this.

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw referenced a specific Blues Seas panel #8029 with main and 1 pole. In the past there use to be if I recall a panel with main only which I believe was a 20 amp or it could have been 15 amp.

This panel is the BBS 8077. Its not 20 or 15, but 30A and is design to be a main breaker, and not a combo main/branch. Maybe this is what you are talking about; but it is a risk when used in this manner because a branch should have 15A protection. Its REAL purpose in life is to be used near your shorepower socket, when the run to your AC panel is over 10 feet. AYBC says if that happens the wire needs a breaker near the socket.

I erred when I meant to say the total of the amp. in use when the breakers are on should never exceed what that specific panel is designed for ... If wired correctly using the proper guage wire, the main breaker would then be tripped as designed.

Yep, It's important to actually understand the science of whats going on.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Your earlier post referenced a 8029, not the 8077.

How many shore power systems using the smaller breaker panels have you installed. Have the panels changed over the years. Well I can answer that. I have installed quite successfully over 300 shore power systems in small boats using blue seas panels over the years and yes they built different panels way back then as well but apparently not anymore as things do change over times. I included GFI long before it came standard in the marine industry, backing cover plates for the breaker panel, 12-3 marine grade wiring and so on. Like I said, experience is the best teacher and even certified electricians and surveyors liked my installs to include heat/air, battery chargers, dual battery systems, electronics.

So in the future please talk with knowledge but also experience as the old timers told me experience is the best teacher.

On another note which I did not mention, I have raced a Hunter 216 several times against one where that crew was hiked out. Every time I waited at the finish line for that boat and crew to catch up. Like I tell everyone, Experience is the best teacher.