Outhaul

[Bob S]

I'll be finished winterizing this weekend and was thinking ahead to next season. I read a while back a thread about the outhaul in which RichH referred not being able to adjust the outhaul to driving in first gear. My outhaul ties off to the boom. I want to run it back to the cockpit. The line is too short. I don't want to try pulling the casting off the end of the boom to replace it. Can I tie two lines together to run it back to the cockpit. What kind of knot would you recommend? Or should I just bite the bullet and try pulling the boom apart?

 

[All U Get]

Hi Bob,

On our Catalina 30 we removed the little car that attached to the clew of the main. We added a micro-triple block to the clew and the other block attached to the outhaul. Doing this we could fine tune the tension from the cockpit. An added benefit was the line would dangle below the boom cap just enough to get me to duck when entering the cabin. Got the idea from this forum but couldn't find it with a search.

All U Get

 

[The Garbone]

Sheet bend? Not as good as a splice but would work.

 

[Don Guillette]

Actually, I'm the guy that came up with the 2 Harken triple blocks and here's why. Most older Catalina outhaul's, including mine, were frozen in place. They were like the broken clock --the setting was right for one point of sail and wrong for all others. The same goes for frozen fairlead's, which I used to see all the time. The internal outhaul system looks trick but is a poor design and even if you take the boom apart and manage not to break one or both of the end caps in the process, it will still mess up again.

The original slug that sits in the bolt rope track is another problem. Due to the downward pulling motion of the outhaul it causes the slug to dig into the boom creating a lot of friction. With the system I used the pulling motion is horizontal. Actually, a mate should get rid of the slug. The 2 block system is the poor man's solution.

There's a better method that was developed by a friend of mine, Max Munger, Who's the sec't of the C30 National assoc and who I used to race with at National events. He added a short track at the end of the boom and had Garhauer build him a small car. it works great but you have to cut the sail to make it function.

When I set up the system I didn't think it through and I had a problem during the first test drive. I thought it would be slick if I could adjust the outhaul from the helm so I used a short line coming off the end of the boom. This worked great when I was closehauled but not so great on other points of sail. The solution was to add a turning block to the end of the boom and run the line to the front of the boom. I could have run it back to the cockpit if I had wanted to.

BobS: When you tie 2 lines together it doesn't look very nautical!! Buy a new line.

 

[All U Get]

Actually, I'm the guy that came up with the 2 Harken triple blocks and here's why. Most older Catalina outhaul's, including mine, were frozen in place. They were like the broken clock --the setting was right for one point of sail and wrong for all others. The same goes for frozen fairlead's, which I used to see all the time. The internal outhaul system looks trick but is a poor design and even if you take the boom apart and manage not to break one or both of the end caps in the process, it will still mess up again.


.

Thanks Don, I knew I got it here. Ours worked great on the Catalina.

All U Get

 

[The Garbone]

BobS: When you tie 2 lines together it doesn't look very nautical!! Buy a new line.

Actually, a Flemish bend with 2 nice stopper knots could be make to look quite dapper.

 

[Daveinet]

I would suggest pulling a new line through the boom. Melt the end of the line with a soldering iron so that it has a small little chunk of plastic on the end. Do that to the new line as well. Then take a paper clip and unfold it and poke the on end through the threads of the line and fold it over. Do that to the new line as well. Then wrap the whole thing in black tape. This will give you a strong enough splice to pull the new longer line through the boom.

 

[Jackdaw]

There's a better method that was developed by a friend of mine, Max Munger, Who's the sec't of the C30 National assoc and who I used to race with at National events. He added a short track at the end of the boom and had Garhauer build him a small car. it works great but you have to cut the sail to make it function.

Can you do what most racers do? Wrap the clew to the boom with a long length of double sized velcro tape. Fast, effective, adjustable, easy, cheap, and you could lift the boat with it.

 

[Don Guillette]

Jackdaw: Normally, I would say "there is no difference between racing trim and cruising trim -- there's only a right way and a wrong way to trim your sails" but in this case I don't think the system will work. Not because it's not a good system but because the cruising sailor is a different kind of cat from the racing sailor. Also, it looks like the system would work best with a loose footed system and most cruisers have a bolt rope outhaul system. If they have a loose footed system they tend to go overboard (way too much adjustment) on the outhaul.

Over the years I've probably been on more sailboats that the average person on this forum will ever be on. I don't want to say the average cruiser is lazy -- he isn't -- he just doesn't know what he doesn't know and additionally, he doesn't do what is hard. He only does what's easy and many times he doesn't even do what's easy. He sets the sail trim controls and forgets them!! He plays with the mainsheet and maybe the traveler but rarely adjusts the fairleads or the outhaul. On older Catalina's the outhaul is stuck in the first place and the pin type faileads are rusted in place. When I explain how important those 2 controls are they start to use them -- at least when I'm onboard!!

The 2 triple Harken blocks are expensive little buggers but cheaper ones are available. A mate could set up the 2 block outhaul system for under $40 -- I hope that's accurate as I haven't been to West Marine or BoatUS in a coons age. All the average cruiser has to do is crank on a line. No other movement is necessary.

Is the boat pictured your boat?

 

[Bob S]

Thanks for the suggestions.
Don, I'm a regular stalker and sometimes contributor to the C30 Yahoo group and have seen Max's set up. It's a pretty nice set up. Mine just cleats off to the bottom of the boom. It requires moving forward to adjust consequently I get lazy and leave it be. It's one of those things I want to remedy this off season.

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw: Normally, I would say "there is no difference between racing trim and cruising trim -- there's only a right way and a wrong way to trim your sails" but in this case I don't think the system will work. Not because it's not a good system but because the cruising sailor is a different kind of cat from the racing sailor.

Is the boat pictured your boat?

Don, Maybe I'm not understanding something, but I think that changing out the slug system for a wrap is good idea on any boat. Less friction. And certainly better, cheaper, and less complicated than adding a track! Not really a 'racer' idea, just a good idea.

Yep, that's our 'in-town' boat!

 

[Bob S]

I did the Garhauer adjustable fairleads a few seasons ago.

 

[All U Get]

Bob do you have a set of blocks inside the boom? It makes it a 2:1 when adjusting. I think my MK I had that set up that's why it was easier to add the triple blocks which gave me a 6:1. We sold (gave away) last month and I don't think I kept any pictures, but I'll look.

All U Get

Our present boat is loose footed so we have Jackdaw's set up with the sail folding into a stack pack.

 

[Don Guillette]

Jackdaw: Nope, I don't advocate adding a track. It's too expensive and involves cutting the sail for track clearance. My suggestion is the common seaman's cheap way out. You use 2 blocks and eliminate the slug. Actually a mate could keep the slug -- because of the horizontal pulling motion it doesn't create much friction that would amount to anything. All I needed was about 6" of movement. Along with replacing the curved track traveler the outhaul conversion was two of the best sail trim mods I made to my C30. After that came the adjustable fairlead system.

 

[Daveinet]

Yep, that's our 'in-town' boat!

I thought this was your in town boat

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw: Nope, I don't advocate adding a track. It's too expensive and involves cutting the sail for track clearance. My suggestion is the common seaman's cheap way out. You use 2 blocks and eliminate the slug. Actually a mate could keep the slug -- because of the horizontal pulling motion it doesn't create much friction that would amount to anything. All I needed was about 6" of movement. Along with replacing the curved track traveler the outhaul conversion was two of the best sail trim mods I made to my C30. After that came the adjustable fairlead system.

OK cool. You called it a 'Better method', and I keyed off of that. Your block idea seems solid.

There's a better method that was developed by a friend of mine, Max Munger, Who's the sec't of the C30 National assoc and who I used to race with at National events. He added a short track at the end of the boom and had Garhauer build him a small car. it works great but you have to cut the sail to make it function

 

[Jackdaw]

I thought this was your in town boat

Dave, That's a GREAT find! That is my old First 235 Jackdaw, on Lake Harriet in downtown Minneapolis. Easily one of the best boats I've ever owned, and one of the best boats ever made under 25 feet. Ever.

 

[Don Guillette]

Jackdaw: Max Munger's setup is a better idea, but he has more money than I do to throw around!!

I loved sailing with him. My job was mainsheet/traveler. He was the best start line guy and all around skipper I've ever raced with but I think his equal is guys like you, RichH, Stu J, Scott TBird, Joe from San Diego and many others on this forum. I learned a lot from Max and I could have learned from you guys. Max would sail about the start line area and I'd think to myself what are you doing and we're never going to get back in time but he always hit the line a nanosecond after the gun -- I don't know how he did it. During a Santa Cruz race in 35 to 45 knots, we were neck and driving for the finish line. You could have stepped across to the other boat. He asked me for one more ounce of speed but I didn't dare touch anything -- I was hoping for a mistake from the other crew, which they didn't make. The thought crossed my mind that maybe instead of touching anything that I should just jump overboard to lighten the load!!!

 

[RichH]

For outhaul multi-block systems go to:http://www.harken.com/content.aspx?id=3910 for various ideas.

Note the 4:1 'external' system uses a 'doubler' through the clew ... see the dwg. from "A" to "B". What this 4:1 example is showing is that one can easily 'double the mechanical purchase' of just about any outhaul system by simply running the control line from a block at the end of the boom ... and then 'through' the clew cringle (or attached block to the clew) and then running the outhaul control line back to the end of boom and terminating the line there ... not terminating AT the clew, etc. but at the end of the boom .... for twice the force applied to the clew for any block system used.

;-)

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Which are you?

You're either really slow, approaching the windward mark while your competitors have rounded and are heading downwind .... or .... you already rounded the downwind mark?