Head or no Head?

topcat0399 · Sep 30, 2014

We spend extended periods on our boat on inland lakes. The boat originally had a portapot with a tank that you carried off to dump (eww). I am not interested in plumbing dasbOOt for a marine head. Since most lakes we visit have no public bath or pump out/disposal facilities a solution had to be found - especially for the admiral.

I tore the portapot apart and converted it into a double duty bag/bucket system using most of the parts from the old portapot. It works out great except their is occasionally an odor when it is opened for use. We think its the best compromise for us. In the duty business there is no free lunch.

ps; I stole a bunch of ideas from Sumner and Ruth on this subject.

Merlin Clark · Sep 30, 2014

Having installed full MSD systems (head, holding, hoses, valves, thru hulls, pump out deck fitting, macerator, etc) on a couple of my previous boats (35' and 41'), I can tell you it's expensive, a lot of work (PITA type) AND these systems have to be maintained.
I'd make do with the portapotty. Simple, legal, cheap and not much to break. Use the chemicals and the right TP.

kito · Sep 30, 2014

I went with aThetford (msd version). It has a built in 5 gallon holding tank that can be pumped out. I figured it will hold enough crap before being pumped out. It is also hooked to a "y" valve and a manual pump to use in legal waters.

Sumner · Sep 30, 2014

topcat0399 said:
We spend extended periods on our boat on inland lakes. The boat originally had a portapot with a tank that you carried off to dump (eww). I am not interested in plumbing dasbOOt for a marine head. Since most lakes we visit have no public bath or pump out/disposal facilities a solution had to be found - especially for the admiral.

I tore the portapot apart and converted it into a double duty bag/bucket system using most of the parts from the old portapot. It works out great except their is occasionally an odor when it is opened for use. We think its the best compromise for us. In the duty business there is no free lunch.

ps; I stole a bunch of ideas from Sumner and Ruth on this subject.

....and we stole it from someone else

. As mentioned other than the odor (which can be reduced -- use a little of the stuff West Marine sells for this in the bag.) during actual use it worked out great and freed of a bunch of room on our small boat.

With two of the 5 gallon buckets with the snap-on lids for storage we went 7+ weeks on the water without having to ashore to dump once. We also used the same system on the Endeavour when we were moving her and had planned on doing the same once we dumped over 3 miles out the last time until we returned to the boat yard so the holding tank would be empty there.

I know a lot of people 'turn their nose up' at using the bags, but no hauling that porta-pottie into a bathroom to dump and then try and clean every 3-4 days and having to make your sailing schedule around those trips. When the trip is over take the $2.50 bucket to a dumpster and you are done.

More on the our site here...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/09-10-16-Powell-09.html

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Scott T-Bird · Sep 30, 2014

If you are using your boat exclusively in freshwater, it means that there is no legal discharge anywhere you are going to be. That said, it seems that you are looking for greater capacity than you have with your porta-potti. Perhaps you don't like having to deal with the disposal (I don't blame you). If you have ready access to pump-out facilities, I don't know why you can't simply install the toilet with an adequate-sized holding tank without going thru the effort of installing a thru-hull discharge to the lake. You would still install the deck fitting for pump-outs. If the boat was ever moved to salt water, the thru hull could always be added later.

That's essentially how we use our toilet and holding tank. There is no use for our thru-hull even tho it came with the boat. We don't really have a need for a toilet and we infrequently pump out our 10 gallon tank based on our very infrequent use. I think that you might want more capacity if you stay out for longer periods than daysailing.

kito · Sep 30, 2014

Scott T-Bird said:
If you are using your boat exclusively in freshwater, it means that there is no legal discharge anywhere you are going to be. That said, it seems that you are looking for greater capacity than you have with your porta-potti. Perhaps you don't like having to deal with the disposal (I don't blame you). If you have ready access to pump-out facilities, I don't know why you can't simply install the toilet with an adequate-sized holding tank without going thru the effort of installing a thru-hull discharge to the lake. You would still install the deck fitting for pump-outs. If the boat was ever moved to salt water, the thru hull could always be added later.

That's essentially how we use our toilet and holding tank. There is no use for our thru-hull even tho it came with the boat. We don't really have a need for a toilet and we infrequently pump out our 10 gallon tank based on our very infrequent use. I think that you might want more capacity if you stay out for longer periods than daysailing.

I have a waste thru hull on my setup but will not connect it from my hand pump until I move it to the coast. The bag in the bucket pics got me thinking that I could hand pump into a bag in case the built in holding tank gets full before pump out.

Ron20324 · Sep 30, 2014

Perhaps a porta-potty with more than one tank that you could switch out when it is full?

bffatcat · Sep 30, 2014

head or no head

Time for my 2c Anyone who has read my posts know I`m a minimalist That means no electronics, no electricity, no head What I have is a galvanized iron bucket with a seat on it.
This means no clogged head, no changing head gasket kits, no leaks. NO ODOR: a few miles off shore and I dump the bucket overboard into the Atlantic ocean. Unfortunately this system wont work in fresh water

n fresh water

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Sep 30, 2014

They are called "wag bags". Put it in the porta potti, use it, seal it up Work fairly well for short term usage , particularly in lakes. Legal to dumpster them when you come back in.

One caution- they DO smell lif you put urine in them, otherwise, not bad

Scott T-Bird · Sep 30, 2014

It's funny how people don't seem to listen to the poster's implied desires. I think he said he already has a porta-potty. Reading between the lines, I gather that disposal is a task that they don't find particularly appealing. It also seems that capacity of a porta-potti is also an issue based on their anticipated vacation plans. They seem to WANT a regular toilet with holding tank and are asking if it is worthwhile to make it a project (read - get rid of the porta-potti). Now we have a bunch of folks who are regaling them with the charm and utility of emptying buckets of human waste. What a laugh! Install the toilet with a holding tank. If you have access to pump-out facilities, it will make life much more pleasant. (my particular favorites are the posters who suggest that they dispose their waste offshore, when the posters live in LAKE country!) bffatcat, exactly how is agprice supposed to empty his buckets in the Atlantic Ocean?

tommays · Sep 30, 2014

Well

You got a pumpout or you dont and if there is NO pumpout its carry the porta potti

We love are sealand traveler as it is everything in one simple unit that use very little water

kito · Sep 30, 2014

He should tell us if he even has access to be pumped out. If not, then his porta pottie or crapping in a bag is his only choice. Or he can just jump in the water and launch a few....which I believe is legal. You just can take a dump in a bucket and throw it overboard.

sesmith · Sep 30, 2014

OK, where are the composter folks? We have a marine head on our boat, but if we didn't already, I'd put in a C-head or one of the other composters. I considered taking out our marine head this year and swapping to one of these, but I'm going to go with the known entity for now, and just replace the hoses.

Ours has a 10 gal tank, and that's small enough that you don't get too many days between pumpouts when you're cruising. I like the idea of not having to worry about it with one of the composters, but I've never used one, and there are always some compromises whatever system you use. I've used the wag bag setups before, and would again in a pinch, but they aren't pleasant.

topcat0399 · Sep 30, 2014

In our case a FULL bag weighs about 1 lb wraps into a small packet can be easily triple bagged with plastic shopping bags for handling and placed in regular trash.

We have 5 quart airtight plastic jugs we picked up cheap and for long trips store several bags in those. End of trip - haul to dumpster or home. Not really hard to handle - just distasteful due to our own preconceived notions. Picking up dog poop and cleaning litter boxes is worse I think.

We haul stuff to the boat and we haul stuff out. No biggie.

John23883 · Oct 1, 2014

I rely on Peggie Hall's advice

Peggie Hall knows more about heads than anyone! She recommends a porta-pottie.

Read this: http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1080526&highlight=porta marine

You use it, carry it to a toilet, rinse it, and you are done. About 10 minutes.

Alan Gomes · Oct 1, 2014

John23883 said:
Peggie Hall knows more about heads than anyone! She recommends a porta-pottie.

Read this: http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1080526&highlight=porta marine

You use it, carry it to a toilet, rinse it, and you are done. About 10 minutes.

Agreed. Peggy is quite correct on this.

At her recommendation I installed an MSD porta potty with a built-in 5.5 gal. tank in my 26 footer. It has considerably more real working capacity than I had with my head with 14 gal. holding tank on my previous Catalina 30. And it's precisely because it uses so little flush water, just as she said. No problems with odor, either, and the thing is utterly reliable: no joker valves to replace, pumps to lube, etc.

I have mine plumbed for overboard discharge through a macerator for when I'm 3 miles offshore. I understand in this case it would be used in a no discharge area. I don't know whether there are any dockside pumpout facilities available (perhaps that was mentioned and I missed it). If so, then an MSD porta potty could be easily set up to be plumbed to a deck pump-out fitting.

rardiH36 · Oct 1, 2014

John23883 said:
Peggie Hall knows more about heads than anyone! She recommends a porta-pottie.

Read this: http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1080526&highlight=porta marine

You use it, carry it to a toilet, rinse it, and you are done. About 10 minutes.

I came to this same conclusion in 2007 when I was deliberating replacing the entire system in my newly acquired 1980 36' Cherubini Hunter. This even before I read Peggie Hall's lean towards porta-potties (PP's). Granted my need is primarily day sailing for when I have guests. And for the occasional 1-3 day ventures somewhere. My PP can also plump to a MSD pump-out. But with several gallons of holding, really not necessary for my normal need. Much easier just to grab the holding tank portion and bring it to the nearest PP facility ... like my home's EPA approved municipal sewage system. And carrying home is much easier then docking my seriously heavy prop-walk boat into unfamiliar pump-out facilities.

My PP model has a fresh water tank and a battery operated pump to swirl the fresh water into/around the bowl. To use, a quick push of fresh water flusher button to wet the bowl. Just a couple of ounces. The person does what comes naturally. Pull open the flap. A couple of quick pushes on flusher will fresh water rinse the bowl into the holding tank. Then push close the flap. Simple. And guests can do it without much instruction.

The PP seals are good. So never any odor in the boat. One PP modification I made though was to plumb an air vent line to the outside.

Not mentioned anywhere yet is that one can also have on board a (say) 5-10 gallon secondary wide-mouth plastic holding "jug". When the PP tank might get full, pour it into the jug. My daughter has a cat. The plastic container that the cat litter comes in is large and has a very wide screw top opening that seals quite tight. Perfect.

PP pour out can be gross, yes. But over-all, I haven't yet regretted the PP alternative.