Our trip home... Along with a couple of engine issues.

Kings Gambit · Sep 24, 2014

My guess, something started clogging the fuel flow to the diesel. Old fuel tanks can accumulate a type of sludge that can enter the pick-up and clog somewhere downstream toward the engine. I pulled an 8-in long piece of that stuff from my emergency fuel shut off valve a couple of months ago. My engine was doing the same; long periods of running smoothly, then loss of RPMs, cutting out, and threatening to die. Recommend minimally to change the upstream (primary) filter again b/f going out the next time. May have to do the tank scouring/fuel polishing treatment to get it fully right.

Stu Jackson · Sep 24, 2014

Congratulations on your new boat and a great trip.

Many of the systems on our boats are identical. The C310 Group on this forum is a place to start. http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=111

We have cross linked many of our engine issues in these posts:

Critical Upgrades http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html

Engines 101 - The BIGGEST & BEST collection of M25 Universal Engine Information on the Internet

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine

CraigS · Sep 24, 2014

Check your fuel pump. I had a similar problem. The fuel tank is positioned such that gravity will provide fuel to somewhere around 1/2 tank. Then you need the pump. Pump may be off due to bad pump (duh) or the circuit from the oil sensor that provides the 12V. I was way out in the gulf when my sensor failed and had to rig a bypass jumper. Also had a failed fuel pump at another time. Good luck.

DaveJ · Sep 24, 2014

I agree with Craig. The sender unit is problematic, there can be corrosion on the terminals, a bad connection inside the spade connectors or the tabs can break off the sender unit, due to vibration of the motor. The fuel pump gets its power from this sender unit.....there are many posts in the 310 forum that deal with this. If you take the 2 wires off the sender unit, jumper them together, turn your ignition key to 'on', you should hear the fuel pump ticking. There is also a connector on the fuel pump that may need to be looked at, cleaned or re-crimped. Either of these suggestions are cheaper and easier than replacing the fuel pump and still having issues.....Good luck

Cheers

dj

DaveJ · Sep 24, 2014

There is a very good chance the 2 issues are related. An intermittent connection, due to a broken wire/poor contact/faulty device could possibly be the answer. The alarm and the fuel pump both get their power from the sending unit. Go back through some earlier posts on the fuel pump, there are many.
Another way to check if the pump is functional, turn your ignition key 2 clicks and hold it (this will power the glow plugs), you should hear the clicking of the electric pump. You may have to have someone down below, or lift the engine cover to hear the clicking. When the key is in the run position, the pump is powered only when there is oil pressure (the engine is running and the sending unit is working). If you were a rocket scientist (seriously!) you could look at the wiring schematic and understand it.....most of us just ask 'why did they wire it like this?'.
Cheers

dj

Stu Jackson · Sep 24, 2014

Neal, the "two issues connected" are covered in one of the Critical Upgrades topic.

Stu Jackson · Sep 24, 2014

tooimpulsive said:
If the low pressure alarm and the fuel pump power are connected... maybe the oil pressure switch was gradually going bad until it finally got bad enough to cause the fuel pump to operate intermittently.

Neal, good detective work so far. "...are connected..." is vague, though. You need to find out exactly how, based on the Critical Upgrades and your own engine wiring diagram, I think you'll find it discussed there and shown. IIRC, the oil pressure has to come up to pressure to get the fuel pump running.

Good luck.

valcour · Sep 25, 2014

I bet they are connected. I also have a 2003 model (#218) and recently had to replace the fuel pump (785 hours). Based on hindsight, mine was running for quite a while without the pump. Of course it quit when we were a couple days into a week long cruise, and we had to sail into a marina and get a friend to bring us a new pump. We've also had the spade lug break off the oil pressure switch at a different time. We now carry spare oil pressure switch (westerbeke # 037323) and fuel pump (westerbeke #39275 $179 or Facet #40185 $60).

woodster · Sep 25, 2014

tooimpulsive said:
OK, guys... I think I am getting there. How does this sound?

Early in our trip the low oil pressure alarm was very faint and intermittent (I could barely hear it over the engine running). It got louder as the trip went until I finally covered the buzzer with duct tape so the chirping would not bother us. Then later in the trip the engine showed signs of fuel starvation, reduced rpms, stuttering, on an intermittent basis.

If the low pressure alarm and the fuel pump power are connected... maybe the oil pressure switch was gradually going bad until it finally got bad enough to cause the fuel pump to operate intermittently.

I either have a bad oil pressure switch or there is a connector somewhere that is not solidly attached. As I was poking around today I noticed a connector rubber boot that had backed off of and was not covering the post. I pushed it back in place. I will try to crank the engine tomorrow to see if this could have been the issue.

Please let me know if you see anything in my explanation that does not make sense to those with more diesel experience. Thanks to all for the comments.

Neal

there is one sure way to check this ...and that is to wire the fuel pump wire direct to a 12vdc source on its own and that will let you know if the problem is in the switch connection ...i put a fuel pump on my yanmar and it is wired so that when the switch key is turned on the pump runs and doesn't have to depend on the oil pressure switch/sender to work

Stu Jackson · Sep 25, 2014

Folks, I urge you disocntinue saying things like "...they are connected..." because, while true, it simply doesn't address the functional issue, nor HOW they are connected.

The "connection" functionally means the fuel pump ONLY works when the glow plugs are held on with the spring switch OR when the engine is running after the oil pressure comes up. The issue is How It Works in addition to How It Really is Connected. One of my links provided an in depth analysis I did of the wiring diagrams for another skipper. Your choice to read it or not but I'm sure Neal will.

Those are the issues Neal needs to address, covered in my previous links.

Here's the "functionality" text:

Universal Manual Starting Instructions: Tonywright’s post in reply # 38 about the Universal manual requiring holding the glow plugs via the keyswitch spring position ON while hitting the start button MEANS that there is a continuous draw on the battery bank from BOTH the glow plugs AND the starter motor. Our C34-group experience is that this INHERENTLY leads to tough & rough starting. The Mark I “trick” has always been to RELEASE the glow plug (button in our Mark I case) BEFORE the start button, so that both heavy amperage draws are NOT on at the same time. There is no reason to need to do what Universal suggests, regardless of how your starting sequence is wired. This is one of the reasons that I cautioned earlier that new designs that complicate originally simple operations are not necessarily “improvements.” What you can try if you choose to is to release the glow plug spring setting on the key switch, wait a bit, and then hit the start button. All this means is that, as “possibly” wired, the fuel pump will only be off for that short amount of time between releasing the spring glow plug and hitting the start button. It should make NO difference in starting operation, since the fuel will “be there” from the pump operating during the period you are holding the glow plugs, and once started the fuel pump will begin operation once the oil pressure switch closes upon engine start. I believe this “duplex” newer wiring setup to the pump is an unnecessary complication to what used to be a simple startup procedure. Interrupting the fuel pump between the glow plugs off and oil pressure switch close is unnecessary, since the fuel pump and oil pressure have nothing to do with each other. On the Mark Is, the pump runs when the ignition switch is in the ON position, runs all the time. Why stop it?

Doug4bass · Sep 28, 2014

I had intermittent. .....broken spade on a westerbeke 20-2b.