The post on the 40 year old mast got me thinking about rigging replacement. I am thinking about both the maststays and the hallards? Is there a standard rule of thumb? Since my boat is new to me, I will be going over everthying along the way, looking for frays or nicks. Appreciate any tips.
Rigging Lifespan?
- Thread starter cudamank
- Start date
Saltwater or fresh?
Had a freshwater rigger tell me he has never seen a freshwater boat rig fail, even on 40 year old boats unless it was for damage or improper install.
Saltwater boats; 10 to 15 years is the 'accepted standard'
Had a freshwater rigger tell me he has never seen a freshwater boat rig fail, even on 40 year old boats unless it was for damage or improper install.
Saltwater boats; 10 to 15 years is the 'accepted standard'
Previously the boat was sailed in Salt water, Monterey, CA. Future will be mostly freshwater. (if we ever get enough rain again to fill the lakes back up.)
Like reefing: if you think you may need to....
What's your entire rig or boat worth to you?
And...salt vs fresh has NOTHING to do with it, it's the stress on the standing rigging that IS the issue.
Sailing closehauled doesn't tell the rig anything about the salt or fresh water it's bobbing about in...utter nonsense.
What's your entire rig or boat worth to you?
And...salt vs fresh has NOTHING to do with it, it's the stress on the standing rigging that IS the issue.
Sailing closehauled doesn't tell the rig anything about the salt or fresh water it's bobbing about in...utter nonsense.
Oftentimes, standing rigging replacement is dictated by whoever insures the boat. Try to ascertain the age of the current rigging as a starting point.
Aside from that, learn the details of inspecting your own rig. My experience has been that most sailboat professionals tend to pass the buck when asked to inspect and sign off on the condition of standing rigging. Even proclaimed sailboat riggers would be hard pressed to sign-off on rigging without first replacing it all.
As for salt water verses fresh water - surely salt spray is more corrosive than fresh water spray on standing rigging as well as all other exposed boat fittings and hardware.
Andy
Aside from that, learn the details of inspecting your own rig. My experience has been that most sailboat professionals tend to pass the buck when asked to inspect and sign off on the condition of standing rigging. Even proclaimed sailboat riggers would be hard pressed to sign-off on rigging without first replacing it all.
As for salt water verses fresh water - surely salt spray is more corrosive than fresh water spray on standing rigging as well as all other exposed boat fittings and hardware.
Andy
Bull
The rigger I know has 30 years experience on the Great Lakes. He has not seen ONE rig failure due to age. That would count many thousands of boats up to 40 years old...including boats raced hard on the Great Lakes. And your personal experience?
As you can tell there is no simple answer to that question. Boats that spend their lives in the tropics will need more frequent replacement than those in the great lakes. Part of this is a more corrosive environment and part is a longer sailing season. Racing boats will need replacement sooner than a lightly used weekender. If you plan to cross the Atlantic or just day sail will also effect your decision to replace. If your rigging is more than 20 years old or you a planning some hard sailing I would plan to replace. Replace the standing rigging before the running if on a limited budget. Also do not forget chainplates as these are an important part of rigging along with turnbuckles tangs and pins. It is a good idea to at least drop the mast every 10 years or less for a full and through inspection. I do rigging inspections for insurance and will say an aloft inspection is never as goos as one done on the ground. Good luck
So how does one inspect their own standing rigging? What do you look for? My project boat is 35 years old and spent most of it's life on the east coast. It's been on the hard for at least the last 10 years. All shrouds look good to me. No kinks or frays and swaged fittings seem tight. I have no idea if these are the original. Do professional riggers test them by putting them under load? I would hate to pay to replace perfectly good shrouds.
I looked into this after we bought our boat. I know of lots of fresh water boats with rigging that is 30 years old.
I had ours inspected by a well known rigger in Florida. He suggested a few fittings be replaced because of possible corrosion. In the end I replaced it all. The rigging was 10 years old. The boat had been in saltwater for about 3 years.
If the mast comes down because of rigging failure it may not be covered by your insurance. Any rigger I talked to would not ok rigging more than 10 years old.
If you see broken strands then it is obvious the rigging should be replaced. A boat in salt water can have corrosion inside the swagged fitting and can crack without warning. I learned from riggers the recommended replacement interval depends a lot on the temperature and salt. The recommended replacement interval is longer in northern US states than in the Caribbean and shorter still in Hawaii.
The cost of replacement rigging can vary a lot. I had 3 quotes for new rigging. One from a rigger in Canada for $3k, one rigger in Florida for $5k. Then I went to a rigging manufacturer in Florida (Seco South in Largo), $1200. I went with Seco, really good work, rotary swagged, fast, honest.
Good luck, Bob
I had ours inspected by a well known rigger in Florida. He suggested a few fittings be replaced because of possible corrosion. In the end I replaced it all. The rigging was 10 years old. The boat had been in saltwater for about 3 years.
If the mast comes down because of rigging failure it may not be covered by your insurance. Any rigger I talked to would not ok rigging more than 10 years old.
If you see broken strands then it is obvious the rigging should be replaced. A boat in salt water can have corrosion inside the swagged fitting and can crack without warning. I learned from riggers the recommended replacement interval depends a lot on the temperature and salt. The recommended replacement interval is longer in northern US states than in the Caribbean and shorter still in Hawaii.
The cost of replacement rigging can vary a lot. I had 3 quotes for new rigging. One from a rigger in Canada for $3k, one rigger in Florida for $5k. Then I went to a rigging manufacturer in Florida (Seco South in Largo), $1200. I went with Seco, really good work, rotary swagged, fast, honest.
Good luck, Bob
Did you have to ship them your old rigging or just give them the dimensions you needed?
you will come out better if you send them your old rigging with the turn buckles attached the way you found them on your boat along with the toggles and don't clean the them as he uses this to determine if you need to shorten or lengthen any pair of shrouds or stays the man is very good at what he does....and if you send your old stuff and let him do the measuring and if he misses the mark he will make it right ..if you measure it wrong you will probably have to make it right...i was down there with mine in person and watched him do a forensic evaluation on mine then left it with him and a couple of weeks later it came without warning completed and all fit just like a glove when i stepped the mast 16 months later ...i was going to prepay him but he didn't let me do that and only sent me a bill on shipment ..so when i got the stuff back i sent payment that same day ...i can't say enough good about these people needless to say it is a pleasure to do business with them as they do it the old fashion way very rare this day and time...i will add that there are still some good people out there doing business but not as many as years gone by
only largo ...don't be so cheap on shipping 
after all based on the savings you get there is a very big gap from 3000.00 to 1200.00....the shipping for my new was about 35.00 to atlanta area and the shipping for yours should be about the same or maybe a little more...the worst case for all your shipping would be about 100.00 or maybe a little more round trip 3000.00 - 1200.00 +100.00 = 1700.00 left to put in something else and i am sure you will need it and your cost may be even lower than 1200.00 i have about the same size boat as you and i was will within under 1000.00 total "JUST DO IT" you will not be sorry
after all based on the savings you get there is a very big gap from 3000.00 to 1200.00....the shipping for my new was about 35.00 to atlanta area and the shipping for yours should be about the same or maybe a little more...the worst case for all your shipping would be about 100.00 or maybe a little more round trip 3000.00 - 1200.00 +100.00 = 1700.00 left to put in something else and i am sure you will need it and your cost may be even lower than 1200.00 i have about the same size boat as you and i was will within under 1000.00 total "JUST DO IT" you will not be sorry
Kito, if your rigging is 35 years old replace it. Even if it looks good it is not as strong as it once was. I have had old rigging tested and found it would break at 50% of its working load even though it "looked" fine.
Like has been mentioned some insurance will not pay for a lost mast if they can call it lack of maintenance. Same thing for sinking if it is a bad fitting or hose.
And I too have had good experiences with Seco, good prices and good customer service. they even have human answering the phone, the same human who will take your order and give advice!
Like has been mentioned some insurance will not pay for a lost mast if they can call it lack of maintenance. Same thing for sinking if it is a bad fitting or hose.
And I too have had good experiences with Seco, good prices and good customer service. they even have human answering the phone, the same human who will take your order and give advice!
FWIW, my insurance company refused to insure the rigging on the delivery run from FL to MD, even though I had a professional rigging inspector do an inspection at the insurrance company's request. When I got to the winter refit 2008-2009, I had the mast unstepped for a more thorough inspection. I ended up replacing the headstay and backstay. Fortunately, the solid-rod rigging and connections were in good shape. Couldn't say the same for the chainplates - they got replaced, too.
The technical answer is: ~1 million load cycles that exceed above ~30% of ultimate tensile strength. In layman's terms thats about one circumnavigation.
Thats the 'fatigue endurance limit' of common 300 series stainless steel, a quite important structural consideration, more important than residual tensile/compressive values as it defines the limit of carrying capacity on a 'fatigue' / micro-crystallization basis.
Most boat insurance underwriters are increasingly limiting the service life of standing rigging to 10-12 years, assuming that the boat is actually used to full dynamic capacity (sailed 'hard') during this time.
Thats the 'fatigue endurance limit' of common 300 series stainless steel, a quite important structural consideration, more important than residual tensile/compressive values as it defines the limit of carrying capacity on a 'fatigue' / micro-crystallization basis.
Most boat insurance underwriters are increasingly limiting the service life of standing rigging to 10-12 years, assuming that the boat is actually used to full dynamic capacity (sailed 'hard') during this time.
I replaced the J24 rigging as it was from 1981 and used hard for piece of mind AND you really dont realize how beat-up it is until you work with the NEW stuff
I replaced the Cal 29 rigging because it was clearly used up and again piece of mind AND in fact i found a hidden worn spot on the head-stay that the furler bushings had caused and it would have FAILED
That being said both boats rigging had easy winters and regular inspections
I replaced the Cal 29 rigging because it was clearly used up and again piece of mind AND in fact i found a hidden worn spot on the head-stay that the furler bushings had caused and it would have FAILED
That being said both boats rigging had easy winters and regular inspections
What I do, whenever I put the boat away, is to carefully hose off all the standing rigging, low and up high. That's how it stays in good shape and should be part of general maintenance.
My experience is more than 45 years sailing, 35 with my own boats. In saltwater and fresh. Yours? Oops, sorry, not trying to be mean and maybe misinterpreting your comments. Your rigger is simply out of tune with the other comments here about insurance issues, stress loading, metal fatigue and general good practice when it comes to safety.
That said, I don't doubt it for a minute. Don't doubt him OR you. Sure, rigs could last that long, and undoubtedly many have.
It simply goes back to "What's your entire boat worth to you? Are any of you seriously considering keeping your standing rigging going for 30 years, EVEN WITH REGULAR INSPECTION?
Your boat, your choice.
Shifting tacks here, it seems the weak spot in all of this is the swage fittings. Primarily because they are cold worked causing them to be at a higher energy state initially and the opportunity for stress corrosion from water penetrating the fitting. Most rigging will tend to fracture at these locations before the actual wire will fail. Other failures are chain plates usually related to wet core and leaks again causing stress corrosion fracturing and then the fretting caused by the relative motion at the chain plate attachments. So all that said is it possible to safely re-use the wire by cutting off the swage fittings and then replacing them with the swageless fittings like the Norseman or equivalent assuming the wire doesn't have any fraying or obvious corrosion?