Mast Climbing - How much is too much

[Joe]

Never tried it but always thought a climbing stick you get for a deer hunting tree stand would work. You lash it to the mast in sections as you go up. Use a safety harness either on the halyard or around the mast in case you fall. You can also use the harness to free up both hands once you get to the top.

Somebody give that a try.

Wow, something original. I looked up some "climbing stick" products...first impression was "this could work".

Is there a limit to the number of sections you can connect together. Some products are sold complete as 20' lengths composed of five 4 ft sections, for instance. Others show 32" sections that are purchased separately. Would going up a 35ft mast be within the range of these critters? Is there any torsion/twisting issues with lashing the product on a relatively small diameter mast compared to a medium sized tree.

Finally, I wonder why no one's suggested this before? Because it makes so much sense.

 

[Brian D]

Using the jib halyard doesn't work if you have a fractional rig.

Oh... and don't forget Mast Mate. That seems to be a reasonable way to ascend the mast.

 

[DougM]

Use a Top Climber/ Bosun's chair. Tie down one halyard and attach the climber, use a second halyard attached to a harness as a safety line. Even with a fractional rig one can stand in the foot straps and work on the masthead. Once you get the knack of it, it's an easy climb.

 

[mbowser]

I just sent my 14 year old son up the mast a few days ago on my Alberg 35. He has been climbing trees since he could walk and loves to go up the mast. I cranked him up on the main halyard (wire) with my wife belaying on an aux. jib halyard also attached to chair. Once he got to the spreaders, he unclipped the jib halyard, moved it over the top of the spreaders and reclipped. Then we proceeded to the top. My son should have been wearing shoes, but he has an amazing talent for going places and 'forgetting' his shoes. This was one of those occasions.

The key ingredients for a successful hoist are
1. Redundancy - don't rely on one halyard, always use two just in case.
2. Competency - make sure the crew on deck knows what they are doing and have the strength and know how to belay.
3. Willing hoistee - don't send someone up who is not comfortable with heights, you don't need someone panicking once they are off the deck.

If your safe about it, there shouldn't be a problem. Unless your rig is a disaster, your boat will support you (or your wife) without issue.

 

[Gunni]

I use a true climbing harness, you can't fall out of it. Tie off a dedicated climbing line to the main halyard , hoist it tight to the masthead, and climb with ascenders. Alternatively you can have someone hoist you with the spinnaker halyard. Coming down one of my ascenders is actually a Gri-gri climbing descender - I control my descent on the dedicated climbing line with a lever on the device. My deck hand has belays on the the pilot house winch. This method would work well even under way.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

At,

Having never done this, the first time will scare you somewhat. Then, what is the halyard & shackle integrity? Then, who is working the safety line & how qualified are they? Then, there is what type lift will you be using? If a normal bosun's chair, you may well be working arms over your head to do the changeout. Then, there is the stretching & rotating you may have to do to reach the AWI.

Listen, going up the mast can be a COOL experience, but for the beginner, I would do it in stages first. First up to the spreaders to do some maintenance, checking etc for familiarization.

Finally there is the motto I use, "Work smart not hard". I would check with a local rigger. I had my antenna changed out last month. It cost $75.00. Well worth it for me without all the trouble. Your AWI should be the same 10 minute job. Ask a rigger if he would be agreeable to $75.00? Most will say YES.

CR

 

[BayMan]

Wow, something original. I looked up some "climbing stick" products...first impression was "this could work".

I use them for deer hunting. Very secure. You can go way higher than 20' .

 

[Claygr]

I suggest getting a Mastclimber - you've probably seen them demonstrated at boat shows. We bought one several years ago and it is rarely on my boat because it is always being borrowed. The benefit is that no one needs to winch you up and you're in control of both ascending and descending. It takes a little bit of leg strength and coordination but in my opinion it is a lot easier than winching even a light person up the mast.

 

[seadaddler]

help

I have done it s few times and suggest
you get a bosuns chair have 2 strong
friends crank you up and see what it like
and use main halyard and backup safety
line
dont go buying all these things for mast
climbing they dont work for every body
and maybe pay some one

 

[Jackdaw]

At,

Having never done this, the first time will scare you somewhat. Then, what is the halyard & shackle integrity? Then, who is working the safety line & how qualified are they? Then, there is what type lift will you be using? If a normal bosun's chair, you may well be working arms over your head to do the changeout. Then, there is the stretching & rotating you may have to do to reach the AWI.
CR

Never never never use the shackle when going aloft. TIE the halyard to your chair or harness with a bowline or double figure eight knot. TIE YOUR OWN KNOT. If you don't feel comfortable tying your own knot, don't go up.

 

[seadaddler]

Sailrite.com

Yes they have a demo and look how young and fit she is and they make it look so easy for sure.
I am 170 5'6'' and very good shape and it took some time doing it and my mast 58' very high up to change the anchor bulb to LED and make sure no wind and don't look down.
I had to use my topping lift and spinnaker halyard as backup with my wife on deck and first time up was killer so high up and long way down and second time was better until it got windy and fast down so waited for no wind.
Nick

 

[thinwater]

I've seen 80 year olds climb a mast--frozen waterfalls for that matter--safely and in control, without great fitness. The technique was, of course, flawless (The climber was Fritz Wiessner). Heck, I know a dozzen seniors that out-climb teenagers. They are smooth.

I've seen 20 year olds (2) get dead, thinking they were strong. They each made one simple mistake, which is all it took.

And I marvel at sailors assuming they have the skills for vertical work without training or supervised expereince. Smart climbers would no doubt ask advise before taking on a serius bit of sailing.

* No shackles. Carabiners or knots.
* Halyards are not climbing ropes. There is little shock absorption. Make certain there is no slack.
* Halyards are not standard size. Some do not fit climbing gear properly. Test them carefully hauling loads first.
* Understand the equipment. For example, a rope grab can lever off if incorrectly attached; seen it happen.
* Be VERY careful belaying with a winch. If there is slack and the rope unwraps, it's all over. This has caused at least one fatality. A climbing belay devise is safer.
* Test the belaying down low with a test fall.
* What will happen if you drop a wrench on the head of the belayer? Will they drop the rope? Is the belay device fail-safe if dropped (yup, this has happened). Should they wear a hard hat or be located to one side?
* Are your tools restrained? The heavy ones should be on lanyards. Use a real tool bucket, designed for hauling. One that won't invert if it rests on a spreader.
* carry extra biners and sling to secure yourself at your workplace. There will be wakes.
* Masthead pulleys can fail. I know of one case where the failure cause the line to cut, followed by a deck fall. There must be 2 lines, since niether is perfect.

But with safe methods it is safe, even relaxing. Just be certain of each element.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

thinwater, when using a climbing rope, is the rope thread across the sheave and back down like a halyard? I'm assuming it isn't safe to simply tie-off the end of the climbing rope to the end of the halyard and hauling it to the top. So do you typically exchange the halyard for a climbing rope the same way that you would for exchanging halyards? It seems like a fair amount of work for the task, but obviously necessary, unless I'm missing something.

When you look at racing rigs, they seem to have crew go up the mast for various reasons on the water. Are they rigged with a dedicated climbing rope or are they using a halyard. If you are actually just hauling a climbing rope to the top with a halyard, how is that made safe?!?!

 

[woodster]

thinwater, when using a climbing rope, is the rope thread across the sheave and back down like a halyard? I'm assuming it isn't safe to simply tie-off the end of the climbing rope to the end of the halyard and hauling it to the top. So do you typically exchange the halyard for a climbing rope the same way that you would for exchanging halyards? It seems like a fair amount of work for the task, but obviously necessary, unless I'm missing something.

When you look at racing rigs, they seem to have crew go up the mast for various reasons on the water. Are they rigged with a dedicated climbing rope or are they using a halyard. If you are actually just hauling a climbing rope to the top with a halyard, how is that made safe?!?!

i think its because of this statement that he uses climbing rope

* halyards are not standard size. Some do not fit climbing gear properly. Test them carefully hauling loads first.

 

[thinwater]

thinwater, when using a climbing rope, is the rope thread across the sheave and back down like a halyard? I'm assuming it isn't safe to simply tie-off the end of the climbing rope to the end of the halyard and hauling it to the top. So do you typically exchange the halyard for a climbing rope the same way that you would for exchanging halyards? It seems like a fair amount of work for the task, but obviously necessary, unless I'm missing something.

When you look at racing rigs, they seem to have crew go up the mast for various reasons on the water. Are they rigged with a dedicated climbing rope or are they using a halyard. If you are actually just hauling a climbing rope to the top with a halyard, how is that made safe?!?!

I did not mean that one must use a climbing rope for safety sake. I meant that...
* I have seen folks try to fit jammers and belay devises onto ropes that are not within the engineered size range.
* I've seen people with slack in the rig that would not be safe if they fell; climbing ropes stretch, but halyards do not, resulting in very high impact forces.
* Though I did not mention it, it is also not safe to use rope graps on HMPE (Amsteel etc) ropes; they do not have the same friction characterisitcs as nylon and polyester.

None of this applies if you are being hoisted up by the halyard winch. It only applies if self-belay is invovled.

However, it is common practice amoung riggers to bring their own climbing rope. They simply tie this to the existing main halyard (assuming the existing halyard is 5000# rated and in good condition--if not, it should be replaced first). The reasons are...
* To save wear on the halyard. The rope grabs spike the rope and the existing halyard may be very high-tech. It saves wear on the customer's gear.
* To insure the rope is the correct size and fits their gear. Why wonder each time you aproach a job? Take your own tools. Part of my work involves refinery inspection, and though the plants have their own gear, I bring my gear for my use. I know how it works and its condition.

I do this myself because my halyards are 1/2", whereas most climbing gear is 3/8-7/16". Though my grabs will fit on 1/2" line, the 10.5mm line gives a better fit and runs smoother. It is nylon and stretches, but that is OK for a safety line. If you use rope grabs, a non-stretch primary of just the right size is needed.

Most sailors would benifit from having a separate climbing line that is is just the right size and dedicated to this single purpose. It will fit the gear correctly and take the wear. This is vital if the halyard is other than polyester double braid, in my opinion. The Top Climber manual probably says this.

 

[Gunni]

I'm assuming it isn't safe to simply tie-off the end of the climbing rope to the end of the halyard and hauling it to the top. So do you typically exchange the halyard for a climbing rope the same way that you would for exchanging halyards?

No, you just want to bypass the halyard shackle, and use all rope to tie off the climbing rope. A double figure 8 works well, better than a bowline. Pull the climbing line taught, lock it off, and it keeps you close to the mast - no swinging about.

It would be better if experienced climbers would provide specific directions, knots and methods instead of scary stories that only propagate the ignorance.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Ok, that makes sense. I learned the double 8 when Sue and I were doing some gym climbing years ago. I haven't used it in many years. Assuming a dedicated climbing rope is 3/8" there's no problem mating it with a 5/16" or 8 mm vectran core halyard with polyester cover?

 

[Chris Patterson]

One thing I like to do if I'm tailing, is wear a hard hat. I usually employ the thing picking masts and such stuff as well, but anyway....I feel a lot better with one on..

 

[Tally Ho]

Why don't people use a block and tackle rig like Redford used in "All is Lost" ? Too much rope needed (which has to be stored)?

It sure looks easier than a Mast Climber....but it was in the movies. Maybe not that easy.

Greg

 

[shemandr]

"Rope Grabs?"