Jib Sheet(s) Knot?

[Steve L22188]

Had to have the jib restitched in a couple of places and now it needs to go back on the roller furler. The PO had TWO jib sheets leading back from the clew - and a very large knot that tied both jib sheets onto the clew grommet. More than once, the large knotted mess would hang up in a shroud.

I was going to just replace the two jib sheets with one single line with an overhand knot at the clew - but it's 92 feet of line and, other than needing to be cleaned, it's really in pretty good shape. So would like to save my boat bucks for other things and re-use this line.

Any ideas on how to attach the two jib sheets to the clew without a knotted mess? Any special knot(s) to use? Or should I bite the bullet and buy new line?

Thanks in advance. BTW: I remain astonished at how knowledgeable - and helpful - and civil - the participants on this site are to one another. First class people here!

Thanks.

Steve

 

[woodster]

Steve i don't know the link but Roger Long showed how to do this one time a couple of years ago do a search on jib sheets and Roger Long and it will turn up ..it was shared by him for just what you are having trouble with .....hope this helps...

regards

woody

 

[Stu Jackson]

Buntline hitch or bowline.

 

[sandpiper10471]

Bowlines, but tied opposite to each other so that a smooth part of the knot is presented to the shrouds. Helps keep them from hanging up. A fairly long tail should always be left on a bowline but it can be seized to the standing part with twine or an electrical tie just to keep them tidy.

 

[Joe]

I prefer separate sheets with bowlines... so you can rotate the sheets easily, make your investment last longer.... to extend their life even more: remove and stow them inside... wrap sail with an inexpensive, single line when the boat is buttoned up for awhile.

Bowline knot is much easier to untie that a buntline hitch... 6 inch loops with the ends on the inside of the loop will keep the knots separate and away from the clew. Buntline is normally cinched up to keep tight when the sail is flogging...but this means the two knots will be bunched up at the clew... The buntline hitch is a great knot for tying on halyards and shackles.

The single line, cowhitch in the middle, method is common on small boats for various reasons... but on boats over 22 feet, it just doesn't make sense. Those who claim it keeps the clew from hanging up in the rigging are not tacking the boat correctly. We've had many discussions on this.... but essentially: Let the jib backwind to help turn the boat... when the main comes over, completely release the sheet and allow the wind to push the sail through the fore triangle...do not try to PULL the sail through with the new sheet{very common newbie mistake, tell your crew to let the wind do the work)... simply pull the slack until the clew is beyond the shrouds, then you can remove the remaining slack and start trimming.

 

[shemandr]

You do not have to use a bowline. I've used a cow hitch for years without untoward effects. You find the middle of your existing long line and from the middle make about a foot of doubled line (loop). Pass the loop through the clew and pull the rest of the sheets, as two lines, through the loop (Oh the other side of the clew). You end up with a tidy attachment. It weighs less than 2 bowlines, which is helpful sailing in light wind and is less likely to hang up on a shroud during tacks. Save your boat bucks for another project.
Joe is correct about tacking. Many sailors, novices and experienced, don't get that pulling on the lazy sheet invites hangup because it pulls the sail toward the rig. If the lazy sheet release is done correctly (And it rarely is) the clew of the jib travels in almost a straight line from one side to the other. The new trimmer needs to have timing and patience - to tack up slack as the sail moves across but not apply tension until after the clew has transited the foretriangle. It's a beautiful thing when done correctly. And easy.

 

[DougM]

Everybody has a favorite, each for a valid reason. I prefer separate sheets attached with bowlines. They are easy to tie, and to untie. I was taught to tie the knots leading in opposite directions and with the tails inside the loop. I have never had one trip on me and release. I personally don't trust a cow hitch and don't use a single long sheet because I Chang the sheets end for end periodically to even out the wear over time.

 

[hewebb]

I just changed to a single line. I went down a size with better line and added a short lanyard between the clew and jib sheet to facilitate the whisker pole a little easier. The reason was to get a better tack in really light air. The bowline knots on the double sheets would catch when the air was to light to blow the jib through. I have not been out in very light air to see if it helped. (the theory sounded good to me, hope I was thinking correctly)

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Steve,

I use a single line like Hewebb uses. I had problems with dual line knots (close to my clew) fouling with my shrouds. I now use only one line with a bowline. The one difference that I now use, is the knot has a one foot loop to the clew. I find this loop allows the knot some distance from the clew attachment allowing it to move freely around the shrouds and has enough play in it not to get hung up. A knot too close to the clew attachment can act as an elbow for which to hang-up on a shroud.

Another reason is the leeward sheet should be preset to allow to run freely (while controlled) to ensure a slight slack in it so your don't have pull happening from both sheets during sail transfer.

After using my loop & making sure my lee sheet will run smooth, it has never hung up even in spirited conditions. Make sure not to pull too hard/ to quick in pulling the sheet while in the sail transfer mode. This should insure you will not hang up on a shroud. The knot type should not matter so much.

Some of the guys use other types of knots & this is fine. There is hardly only one type of knot to use as long as it holds & works for you.

CR

 

[Anonymous 121765]

I also should have mentioned that the one foot loop I use also is an advantage when furling up the headsail. This allows me to take an extra 1 to 1 1/2 turns on my sail. This allows for extra wraps to more protect my sail under the sac strip for added UV protection.

CR

 

[Joe Blizzard]

I use a continuous line for both sheets with an alpine butterfly at the clew. Yes, it's semi-permanently attached and I realize that's not for everybody. As for me, I have a small boat, I only have one headsail, and I unhank and stow my jib and sheets when not in use.

 

[azguy]

No brainer, singe line, cow hitch is the way to go

 

[weinie]

Soft shackes ftw.

 

[AWalker]

I use a Brummel eye splice in the middle of a single line with a quick clip.

 

[wufibugs]

Seems like the smaller boats go with a single line while the mid size and larger use 2 sheets. Mine came with 2 sheets and I'd never thought of changing. Good advice on the tack. Gonna hafta watch the boys carefully to make sure they're letting the jib blow over rather than tugging the sheet. Interestingly, when I got the boat and knew nothing about anything, I was single handing which kind of forced me to do it right. When I took a group lesson, I recall that they taught it wrong, having crew pull the opposite sheet the moment the jib was released.

 

[slaume]

I have a cutter rig and bowlines will hang up, on the inner stay, at various times. I went to a single line with a cow hitch a few years back and it has worked out very well. It does cinch up very thigh by the end of the season and puts some stress on the cringle. I move it a few inches back and forth every season to spread the strain on the line. It makes a very clean connection of the sheets, Steve.

 

[Kingjim91]

I like a cow hitch with a soft shackle.

 

[Regular Guy]

By the Hunter manual ...

 

[inarathree]

If your headsail is on a furler, what does using a bowline over a cow hitch provide? With a hanked on headsail, a bowline or cow hitch/soft shackle is a must, but on a racing boat headsail changes go on all the time.

 

[Brian S]

A cow hitch is prone to slipping. Probably not for small boats/small jibs, but bigger cruisers definitely can have issues. I recall a blue water cruiser who related how his jib sheets did slip about a foot during a crossing from Hawaii to California. The Butterfly knot would likely not slip at all. That Hunter knot looks interesting. I may try and rig one of those this summer and see what I think. I have seen a knot that looks essentially like a clove hitch around the cringle, but when I tried to tie one, it didn't sit well, didn't sit the way I thought it ought to, so I went back to a cow hitch, which works fine for my little 60 sq ft jib. Of course, the type of line that you use for sheets can have a big impact on knot slipping...

If your headsail is on a furler, what does using a bowline over a cow hitch provide? With a hanked on headsail, a bowline or cow hitch/soft shackle is a must, but on a racing boat headsail changes go on all the time.