? on Double Line Reefing Hardware Placement

[Ward H]

Planning to install a double line reefing system which will have the lines led back to the cockpit.
I have been researching this for a while and decided to follow the diagram below on where to place hardware.
Is block B under the boom near the gooseneck the best place for it? Seems the pull on the mounting screws would be tying to pull the screws out. Mounting another cheek block on the boom or even the mast would put side pull on the screws and that would be stronger.

Any thoughts or suggestions on a better way to layout the hardware?

 

[Bill Roosa]

Block B has to be on the boom to keep the tension on the clure reef cringle constant. If it was on the mast (Starboard side??) the on a starboard tack the line would be stretched and on a port tack it would be looser. A cheek block on the boom could work or you could just through bolt (always a good idea BTW) the hardware.

 

[Jackdaw]

Mount it with a boom bale.

 

[FastOlson]

While you did say that this is your Plan....
Is there absolutely no way you can be talked out of this idea? This very bad idea?


Lore

 

[Ward H]

I'm open to all ideas. What part of this plan is a bad idea?

 

[FastOlson]

I'm open to all ideas. What part of this plan is a bad idea?

There is a lot of friction, what with the multiple sheaves that the line must pass through. This increases exponentially as the wind pressure goes up, which is just at the worst time.

And then, it's really difficult to get the new tack to pull down tight against the mast, by the gooseneck, where it has to be to retension the main with the halyard after you get the tack reef in place. Clew reef comes last.
Way better to have these separate.

About the only time that single-line reefing works even halfway well is when you do it at the dock with little or no wind.

Your boat does not have a very large main, so the idea may look seductively attractive, but it routinely fails to result in a good reefed sail shape even on 20 and 22 footers.

It's pretty easy to rig the separate tack and clew reef lines to lead back to the rear of the housetop, and that's the way it was rigged on our prior 26 foot boat. This allowed us to tension the halyard first and then the new reefed clew.

Cheers,
Loren

 

[mitiempo]

There is a lot of friction, what with the multiple sheaves that the line must pass through. This increases exponentially as the wind pressure goes up, which is just at the worst time.

And then, it's really difficult to get the new tack to pull down tight against the mast, by the gooseneck, where it has to be to retension the main with the halyard after you get the tack reef in place. Clew reef comes last.
Way better to have these separate.

About the only time that single-line reefing works even halfway well is when you do it at the dock with little or no wind.

Cheers,
Loren

That drawing shows two line reefing as far as I can see. It shows one reef.

 

[TLW]

The original post refers to "double line reefing" and that is what the drawing shows. Should be no problem, just needs to get the geometry right, as always.

 

[Ray Bowles]

Ward, another option is to use a reefing hook or "rams horn" is it has been called. I have found that to get a good clean and tight reef that I end up at the mast before it's all done. If you chose to gather and tie the excess sail at the boom you have to go forward anyhow. A rams horn is a curled loop that mounts at the gooseneck and the new tack reef point simply hooks over it. Then you pull the rear clew down with your single reef line.
I've had single line reefing, single line for both the first and second reef points on our 38 foot boat and rams horn on my current 23' boat. Rams horn also was stock equipment on our H260 years ago.
Just another option.
Ray

 

[Ron20324]

I agree with Bill about a cheek block on the front end, on the side of, the boom. The drawing would have the reef line dragging on the boom- more fritction and more wear on the line and the boom.

Your C block could be a Ronstan (or other mfg) "RF20174 pivoting lead" to mount low on the aft of the mast. West, p 1023.

 

[Joe]

Ward... your concerns about block B can be addressed by removing the gooseneck so you can access the inside of the boom, allowing you to attach the eye strap with bolts and large washers to spread the load. The bale will work to... but it is bulky and may interfere with the vang.... Notice in the drawing that no vang is represented.

The reality of friction that Fast Olsen mentioned is something to think about.... so you'll probably end up cinching down the clew line at the boom end while standing in the cockpit... then pulling the slack out and cleating the line on the cabin top. This technique will put less pressure on the aforementioned "b" block also...

The block mounted on the mast swivels... that keeps the down line from block B equally tensioned as the boom swings from side to side.

 

[FastOlson]

That drawing shows two line reefing as far as I can see. It shows one reef.

Ah so. Right you are.
Thanks for being tactful.
I was going by the thread title and really did not pay enough attention to the little drawing!
BigDummyMe.


Loren

ps: our present boat has reefing hooks on the gooseneck, and I am looking at replacing them with some modified Wichard snaps. Only one trip forward needed once the halyard is slacked, as the floppy ring would then stay put without swearing at it.

 

[Gunni]

I have sailed several boats with that double-line reefing system, they work well, but can get complicated when you have 2 or even three reef points. You end up with alot of spaghetti. Mount a cheek block at the fore of the boom on the side above the deck block. For your second reef you will want the second reef line going through a cheek block on the other side of the boom. That keeps the spaghetti sorted.

 

[Ward H]

After getting only 4 day sails in when I bought the boat in Oct 2012, I had planned to do this project last spring. This was lower on the priority list so it did not get done.
This allowed me to sail last summer using a hook at the tack and a reef line at the end of the boom to a cleat on the boom, to reef the main. The main has only one reef point. If I needed a second, I would just drop the main and sail on partly furled jib.
One nice thing about the Barnegat Bay is there are more windy days than not. I had a reef in the main on most sailing days and always leave the reef in when I am done for the day so I always start out reefed.
This season I want to try handling the lines from the cockpit. After reading the pros and cons of doing so, to me it makes sense to limit the time I spend on the deck at the mast.
I will be using Garhauer hardware and the “C” blocks will be blocks attached to a halyard organizer plate already installed. Next time I am at the boat, I’ll run a line from the boom end cheek block to the halyard organizer plate and see if a cheek block or hanging a block under the boom, works best to clear the boom vang.

What about just tying the end of the reefing lines to the reef cringles instead of running it through and down to an eyelet on the boom and on the mast? Would that work or do you need the 2-1 advantage of attaching to the eyelet?

 

[Gunni]

Tie the boom end bitter end around the boom with a bowline, use an eyelet to keep in the proper location if necessary. At the mast you may be able to eliminate the eyelet. In both cases you want the reefing line through and down to the eyelet. Big loads here.

 

[Joe]

What about just tying the end of the reefing lines to the reef cringles instead of running it through and down to an eyelet on the boom and on the mast? Would that work or do you need the 2-1 advantage of attaching to the eyelet?

Not a good idea... you want the effort pulling equally down on both sides, and BACK at the clew... FORWARD at the tack. Your suggestion would pull the sail to the side.

 

[Ward H]

That makes sense.

Thanks all for the replies and suggestions.