Winterizing a Catalina 30

[longterm]

I winterized my boat this year (it lives on a mooring), but apparently didn't get it done in time.

As it turned out, my muffler cracked and water was leaking; I got the muffler replaced and it's working fine now, but here is my question.

On the previous muffler (I don't know if it was original--it's a 1990 Mark II that I bought 2 years ago), there was no drain valve, but on the new one there is.

I went out today to make sure the new muffler was drained; I removed the valve, which is a little brass plug that unscrews. Only 2 or 3 drops came out.

So I went ahead and winterized as I always do: shut off the thru hull, attached my siphon hose to the inflow hose, where we fitted a connecter that will allow us to attach this hose, dropped the siphon hose into a gallon of antifreeze, started the engine, killed it when I saw pink coming out of the exhaust.

QUESTION: Has anyone ever drained their muffler before winterizing? The reason I question this is because the previous muffler (which I assume was the original) didn't even *have* a drain plug.

At any rate, word to the wise: if you're not able to run a heater in your boat (and if the power goes out, even that is unreliable), winterize it; it costs $5 for a gallon of antifreeze and takes all of 5 minutes.

Thanks for any advice from other C30 owners.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

If you winterized the boat, you would necessarily have had to run antifreeze through the engine heat exchanger and exhaust (muffler) until you saw antifreeze discharging.

Did you use the cheap alcohol based stuff?

The reason I ask is that I can't understand how the exhaust froze.

 

[Nom De Guerre]

It is likely the exhaust coolant froze if you ran a gallon or less of the antifreeze through the system. That gallon would be significantly diluted by the water already sitting in the water muffler.

I run about three gallons through, still sucking it all in even after it starts coming out the thruhull.

 

[longterm]

If you winterized the boat, you would necessarily have had to run antifreeze through the engine heat exchanger and exhaust (muffler) until you saw antifreeze discharging.

Did you use the cheap alcohol based stuff?

The reason I ask is that I can't understand how the exhaust froze.

No, I used marine antifreeze (Peak, I think); what I *think* happened is that we had some really cold (below 10 degrees) nights BEFORE I winterized it, and I just didn't get it done in time. That's a guess.

Other guess is that maybe the muffler already had a crack in it...

 

[longterm]

It is likely the exhaust coolant froze if you ran a gallon or less of the antifreeze through the system. That gallon would be significantly diluted by the water already sitting in the water muffler.

I run about three gallons through, still sucking it all in even after it starts coming out the thruhull.

I normally run 2 gallons, but today, when I did it again, I first opened the muffler drain, and nothing came out. Seeing that, I didn't worry so much about dilution so I only put a gallon in, and by the end of the gallon I saw antifreeze out the exhaust, so I think it's properly winterized.

My main question was whether anyone drains his muffler before winterizing; the mechanic I used said that I should, but there was nothing in there to drain.

Last question: when the engine is shut down, do 2 gallons *really* remain in the muffler, or does it drain down into the exhaust to the lake? The reason I ask this is because nothing came out when I opened it this morning.

 

[Stu Jackson]

when the engine is shut down, do 2 gallons *really* remain in the muffler, or does it drain down into the exhaust to the lake? The reason I ask this is because nothing came out when I opened it this morning.

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=873073&highlight=winterizing

IIRC, MS suggests that just a few gallons don't necessarily work. You need to determine how much liquid is in your entire system and plan accordingly.

Whatever is left in your muffler should be un-diluted enough to protect.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Sounds like the problem is the antifreeze you used. The "pink stuff" looses whatever efficacy it has if it is diluted. Additionally, it has no rust inhibitors. For these two reasons alone, it should not be depended upon for use in the engine particularly where it gets so cold in winter.

Using it in the potable water system makes sense only because it is non-toxic but the same limitation applies.

 

[longterm]

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

Why not? There are 100+ boats out here and this is what these guys do.

I've read this same thing before in the last couple of days, but fail to see any problem so far with putting a T-valve on the hose.

 

[longterm]

Sounds like the problem is the antifreeze you used. The "pink stuff" looses whatever efficacy it has if it is diluted. Additionally, it has no rust inhibitors. For these two reasons alone, it should not be depended upon for use in the engine particularly where it gets so cold in winter.

Using it in the potable water system makes sense only because it is non-toxic but the same limitation applies.

Do you have a particular brand that you recommend? The stuff I used specified that it was for use in boats.

 

[duality]

Why not? There are 100+ boats out here and this is what these guys do.

I've read this same thing before in the last couple of days, but fail to see any problem so far with putting a T-valve on the hose.

i think stu means never attach a garden hose to the pump, unless he has another way of attaching his pump to the thru hull? most of us have a rubber hose between them!

mike

 

[longterm]

i think stu means never attach a garden hose to the pump, unless he has another way of attaching his pump to the thru hull? most of us have a rubber hose between them!

mike

That makes a bit more sense; I have a T-valve on the rubber hose, and attach a short length of hose to that; I put that short length into an antifreeze jug. Works great and most guys at this club (who winterize) use the same method.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Do you have a particular brand that you recommend? The stuff I used specified that it was for use in boats.

Largely a matter of personal preference. Whatever type/brand you buy, none of the pink varieties can be diluted and still perform it's intended function.

 

[Stu Jackson]

i think stu means never attach a garden hose to the pump, unless he has another way of attaching his pump to the thru hull? most of us have a rubber hose between them!

Gentlemen, if you'd read the link I provided from Maine Sail, he explains why a direct connection is not a good idea. I didn't write that, he did. I do not know if you'd read the link. Sometimes folks don't, I have no idea why.

PS In this case, you didn't even have to read, it's a VIDEO!

 

[longterm]

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

While I do see from his video that he is a knowledgeable guy, I hired a local sailboat owner--who is a professional diesel mechanic--to help me winterize the first season, and he was the one who recommended the T-valve to me.

Not sure who to believe here, but the video was pretty convincing...

 

[longterm]

Largely a matter of personal preference. Whatever type/brand you buy, none of the pink varieties can be diluted and still perform it's intended function.

Back to my earlier question: when you shut off the engine (a Universal in a Mark II like mine), does the muffler drain all its water, or does it hold the 2 gallons that it can contain?

I ask this because yesterday, when I went out to open the drain plug on the muffler, nothing came out--and my boat had already been winterized at that point.

I went ahead and put another gallon through the system, but I"m puzzled as to why the muffler didn't have any water or antifreeze in it...

 

[duality]

Gentlemen, if you'd read the link I provided from Maine Sail, he explains why a direct connection is not a good idea. I didn't write that, he did. I do not know if you'd read the link. Sometimes folks don't, I have no idea why.

PS In this case, you didn't even have to read, it's a VIDEO!

"the clear hose, with a valve on the end of it, runs off to the engine intake" quote from maine sails video.

the only way to get antifreeze into the engine is thru some sort of hose.

never hook up a pressure hose to the engine or run your hose higher than the siphon valve.

 

[dj2210]

Longterm, I would think that there should be something in the muffler after the engine is shut down. I don't winterized cause I keep the boat ready to sail when the temp gets above 50 which happen quite often here in E.TN. I keep a space heater on mine.

 

[quadrille38]

There are three (maybe more) types of antifreeze. There is the pink stuff for the water systems. It's biodegradable. There is also a biodegradable type that is good to something like -50 degrees maybe -100 I can't remember at the moment. It was blue in color. And then there are the automotive types that are not biodegradable.

You should not use the automotive types to winterize your fresh water engine cooling system. They are OK and preferred for use in the closed loop engine block. But they are toxic, can cause significant environmental damage and discharge is prohibited by law in many places.

I go to the local NAPA store and they sell all three types at reasonable price.

For the plumbing I blow out the system, bypass the water heater and then use the water pump to suck in the antifreeze. Takes maybe 1 to 2 gallons.
For the engine I use the low temperature biodegradable stuff. I fill a 5 gallon pail and stick the engine intake in it and run the whole 5 gallons to make sure the muffler is full. My manual and the mechanic at the marina say to always drain the muffler. This actually has the effect of running the antifreeze to the bilge where the bilge pump handles it thereby winterizing the bilge pump. I also pump the manual bilge pump to make sure some is sucked in there.

I also use the low temperature biodegradable stuff to winterize the air conditioners. There is another thread on here about how to do that.

 

[Black71gp]

This was my first winter winterizing my boat, I got the purple -60 degree stuff, for the engine system, I ran 4 gallons through the system till it came out of the exhaust,

I only got a few drops out of the muffler drain valve as well.

however we have had a nasty cold winter, last time I checked on the boat, the purple unopened antifreeze i used that was supposed to be good to -60 was frozen solid.. :/ not slushy but like a rock, and unopened. Gonna be an interesting spring!

 

[quadrille38]

This was my first winter winterizing my boat, I got the purple -60 degree stuff, for the engine system, I ran 4 gallons through the system till it came out of the exhaust, I only got a few drops out of the muffler drain valve as well. however we have had a nasty cold winter, last time I checked on the boat, the purple unopened antifreeze i used that was supposed to be good to -60 was frozen solid.. :/ not slushy but like a rock, and unopened. Gonna be an interesting spring!

Yup this has been one heck of a Michigan winter. That's a bit frightening that the -60 stuff froze.