Has anyone tried or have reason to discourage the use of Boeshield T-9 for winch parts that should be greased? This was developed by Boeing so I am assuming it meets fairly strict aircraft standards, says it's waterproof, and displaces moisture. Much cheaper than the Harken product, but is it suitable?
WARNING - Lewmar Winches Please Inspect
- Thread starter Maine Sail
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Yes, I would discourage it. Why? 'Cuz it's simple: all winch manufacturers recommend winch grease, and then oil on the pawls. For the past 35 years I've been sailing, and probably a lot longer than that! 
If they suggested something else, they'd have mentioned it.
If they suggested something else, they'd have mentioned it.
Grease and oil is the only answer.......
regards
woody
if i am not mistaken it has a drying agent it that will in time dissipate and no longer be effective just like wd40 it is not s lubricant per say the oil on the pawls and grease on the gears is the best preventive lubricant you can do and do it once every year or two depending on useage...
regards
woody
The key word is "shield". I have used it some blocks and moving parts on deck, and it leaves a waxy residue behind. This would indeed block moisture, but would not be an appropriate replacement for grease or oil.
I have retired the can, having not yet found a good place to use it.
L
Wait a minute! I don't care how new that winch is, it is definitely outside the required yearly maintenance schedule. Those pawls are seriously worn as evidenced by the rounded corners and once the pawls wear that badly they will jam at odd angles and wallow their sockets. In fact, it appears that the pawl bases have changed diameter. It isn't fair to blame Lewmar when the owner has so badly neglected his maintenance schedule. FYI, the Lewmar maintenance schedule is yearly and I will guarantee the owner was negligent in his duties. Bottom line - don't blame the manufacturer when you don't do scheduled maintenance. Those are some stupid-worn pawls. Totally neglected.
I was the one doing the maintenance so I know they have been cleaned & serviced using Lewmar specific grease and oil... Pawls have been replaced at least twice and springs every service. I just never realized or noticed how sloppy the pawl sockets had become...
When I serviced them last I did not replace the pawls as they appeared in good shape with square locking edges. The wear on the pawls is not as bad as the camera makes it look and the locking edges are still quite square especially when considering what type of meat they have to lock into.. I have seen way, way worse shape pawls, and the pawl sockets no worse for the wear.Nothing else on these winches shows even the slightest wear, just the pawl sockets. I even measured the very edge thickness of a brand new pawl and one of the ones in the failed pawl gear. New one 3.95mm, old one 3.95mm. The round end 7.81mm new, old 7.81-7.82mm. So it appears the SS is not what gave up material..
I am not the only one to have seen this phenomenon and the Farr 40 class even has a tech sheet noting the upgraded SS pawl gears. The J105 site gives a part number for an upgraded hardened bronze gear for the guys over there who have had similar issue despite proper maintenance..
This was posted on the J105 forums by gbourne in regards to the same winches.
The entire thread can be seen here:gbourne said:
J105 Worn Pawl Gears
Below is an interesting read from the Farr 40 site and shows the "upgraded" parts and talks about why the hardened gears may be a better option with regards to "pawl pocket distortion" and better gear wear...
Farr 40 Upgrade Pawl Gear Parts (Scroll To Bottom)
"• UPGRADE
• Bronze Pawl Gears come as standard in the Lewmar Standard Alloy winches
• As permitted in the Farr 40 Class rules we are happy to offer the S/Steel
Pawl Gear upgrade.
• The benefits of this upgrade are a harder wearing gear package that will
handle the higher loads from the mast head kites. Reducing the Pawl pocket
distortion and the chance of back winding.
• Improving the efficiency of power transfer from input to output."
This may not be a common problem at all but it is easy to check and inspect and certainly beats a broken arm.... I am simply asking folks to check their pawl sockets as I clearly missed these getting so badly blown out.
Any indication or estimate of stress placed on the winches due to amount/force of usage, eg. racing ?I was the one doing the maintenance so I know they have been cleaned & serviced using Lewmar specific grease and oil... Pawls have been replaced at least twice and springs every service. I just never realized or noticed how sloppy the pawl sockets had become...
Nothing else on these winches shows even the slightest wear, just the pawl sockets. I even measured the very edge thickness of a brand new pawl and one of the ones in the failed pawl gear. New one 3.95mm, old one 3.95mm. The round end 7.81mm new, old 7.81-7.82mm. So it appears the SS is not what gave up material..
I am not the only one to have seen this phenomenon and the Farr 40 class even has a tech sheet noting the upgraded SS pawl gears. The J105 site gives a part number for an upgraded hardened bronze gear for the guys over there who have had similar issue despite proper maintenance..
This was posted on the J105 forums by gbourne in regards to the same winches.
The entire thread can be seen here:
J105 Worn Pawl Gears
Below is an interesting read from the Farr 40 site and shows the "upgraded" parts and talks about why the hardened gears may be a better option with regards to "pawl pocket distortion" and better gear wear...
Farr 40 Upgrade Pawl Gear Parts (Scroll To Bottom)
"• UPGRADE
• Bronze Pawl Gears come as standard in the Lewmar Standard Alloy winches
• As permitted in the Farr 40 Class rules we are happy to offer the S/Steel
Pawl Gear upgrade.
• The benefits of this upgrade are a harder wearing gear package that will
handle the higher loads from the mast head kites. Reducing the Pawl pocket
distortion and the chance of back winding.
• Improving the efficiency of power transfer from input to output."
This may not be a common problem at all but it is easy to check and inspect and certainly beats a broken arm.... I am simply asking folks to check their pawl sockets as I clearly missed these getting so badly blown out.
Cruising only, genoa use and sail area in sq ft well under the sizing range for the winches. Boat length also well within Lewmar's suggested size range. No spinnaker use on these winches ever...
I hate to drag this thread down the road of what caused this issue. It is simply intended as a heads up safety check. I do not belive, at this point, that this is a wide spread issue but there could be others as indicated by what I found on the net.
The dangers of back-spinning winch can be very real. My main concern is not to place blame on Lewmar but to have owners take the 10 minutes, actually about 2 minutes per winch, to check their pawl gears. I would hate for a child or an adult to be near a winch handle if it let go....
Pretty sad engineering...
...given what a winch costs these days. Did you contact Lewmar about the issue? I should think that they should investigate a design flaw like this no matter what the age of the winch. Winches aren't exactly a throwaway item. If Lewmar doesn't back their products we can happily shop elsewhere.
...given what a winch costs these days. Did you contact Lewmar about the issue? I should think that they should investigate a design flaw like this no matter what the age of the winch. Winches aren't exactly a throwaway item. If Lewmar doesn't back their products we can happily shop elsewhere.
Bob,
Read through the thread and you'll see that I did talk to Lewmar. The CSR was great and helped me find the parts quickly and efficiently. The only downside was that I was told this does not happen and essentially I am the only one. If you read the thread through you'll see that Lewmar makes special gears as an upgrade to minimize pawl pocket distortion.. Why would they do this if this does not happen? I don't know, nor care. All I really care about is that folks are safe....
I am a big fan of the Ocean Series winches, easy to clean and service, no tools required, and generally speaking very reliable and robust.. If this is an issue I don't think it is wide spread but I do feel it is worth the time to make sure your winches do not fall into this category....
I've thought about this issue as well. Really, after having apart countless winches, some 30, and 40 years old, I have seen this many times. It seems that most of them I disassemble has years of hardened crud built into them, that takes a very concerted effort to get cleaned up again. And in the process have seen them worn to a frazzle, and with this maintenance regimen that is no surprise whatsoever. Some of these rags would have fared better if the owner would have just poured the used motor oil in the winch handle socket, and let the burnt oil settle naturally. This is assuming of course that the oil gets changed at all.
So, when I see a winch that cost more than a few bucks, has been used inside of its design parameters, has been serviced and maintained by one of the best marine mechanics I know, worn OUT that quickly, AND has the heavy duty replacement already on the market, this can tell me only one thing. And I would think tells others the same thing as well.
If I were the representative of a major company, that had to deal with the fallout of an obviously inferior apparatus, and litigation being what it is today, and my product having the daily chore of NOT hurting people, and all of a sudden it starts failing, with potentially hazardous consequences, I may say that my product is performing very well despite the obvious.
Simply an observation and a thought..
So, when I see a winch that cost more than a few bucks, has been used inside of its design parameters, has been serviced and maintained by one of the best marine mechanics I know, worn OUT that quickly, AND has the heavy duty replacement already on the market, this can tell me only one thing. And I would think tells others the same thing as well.
If I were the representative of a major company, that had to deal with the fallout of an obviously inferior apparatus, and litigation being what it is today, and my product having the daily chore of NOT hurting people, and all of a sudden it starts failing, with potentially hazardous consequences, I may say that my product is performing very well despite the obvious.
Simply an observation and a thought..
There is a material known as oilite bronze that has a porous microstructure and is impregnated with oil to maintain lubricity. My guess is the gear is made out of this or similar and thus the reason they want you to use oil to lubricate as opposed to grease. The grease may cake up over time and prevent the oil in the material from doing its' job. Is the part a casting including the two holes that the pawls fit into or are they machined holes? It is perfectly possible that in machining they were made slightly oversize as a quality defect. The holes in the picture look pretty round and I would expect wear to be more concentrated on the highest stress area rather than uniformly all around the circumference. A set of calipers to measure the holes might help in diagnosing the problem. If they were machined oversize and escaped their quality control the company may have liability for replacement even after the warranty period. It's very possible they are using a sampling plan for quality and some number were produced incorrectly before they realized it and corrected the deficiency.
A sloppy fit initially will allow more relative motion and greatly accelerate wear leading to premature or infant mortality.
A sloppy fit initially will allow more relative motion and greatly accelerate wear leading to premature or infant mortality.
Kerosene or white spirit, per the Lewmar service manual.
http://svsoggypaws.com/files/Winches/Lewmar_Winch_Service_Manual_Late_70s.pdf
Yep I generally use spirits as it smells less bad than does K1.. I have also used the "safer" version of spirits. It seems to work less well but is much safer on your hands... My nitrile gloves always tend to rip on me when working on winches..
If owners or yards have used the wrong grease, and it gums up, it may require a longer soak.... If serviced yearly, with the Lewmar grease, a rag lightly dampened with spirits will clean the old grease off very, very easily.... A tooth brush dipped in it cleans the gears.
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