Mast raising system

[tkanzler]

I do like that system, and I have all the material that I will need to do the job. Thank you for your come back and ideas, that other system. That was on u tube looked ok but with my mast I just was not sure,about putting the gin pole on the mast l like your way better. Thank you

If it helps, you can buy the mast base and deck plate from Blue Water Yachts. $25 for each half. P/N 3438-1X0 and 3439-1X0. The gin pole is 1-1/2" OD x 1/8" wall x 6 ft long aluminium tube, and can be bought online at www.onlinemetals.com, or from BWY, among other places (just a favorite vendor - I have no connection to them). It's actually a little cheaper from BWY, but I don't know how shipping compares. I made my own, for an Aquarius I used to have, using electrical conduit (EMT), which is cheap, and comes in 10 ft lengths, but is heavier than the aluminium.

As someone said, the M25 had a 9 ft pole, but BWY doesn't sell the long pole and recommends converting to the 6 ft. You may have to move the deck fitting closer to the mast to improve the leverage at the top with a shorter pole, though that leverage is only needed if you're going to crank hard to make the forestay fitting with the shrouds adjusted properly and no Johnson lever on the forestay.

I use a 5-part block system, mainly because I had some better quality blocks laying around with no job to do, but the standard fiddle blocks MacGregor used for the boom vang work fine, if not with a bit more effort when the mast is near horizontal. If it's a day sail, I can leave the MRS strapped to the mast with the lower block secured and it won't get in the way, and I believe you can do the same with the late model version, though that winch makes me wonder if the is a risk of sail damage. But it only takes a few extra seconds to unpin it and stow it below.

Oh, and if you make your own, use long machine screws to mount the eye straps at the outboard end such that the load from the running rigging (fiddle block) goes through the eye strap, through the bolts, and to the other eye strap, then on to the halyard (assuming you're using the jib halyard for this) and the aluminium only has to see shear from the bolts. The load passes straight through the bolts, in other words, and the aluminium isn't being 'pulled apart' as it would be if short fasteners were used on each eye strap.

Good luck with it.

 

[fwild3]

Don't forget to use baby stays. They are crucial,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

What are baby stays? Are they side lines to the mast to keep it from toppling before it approaches vertical and the shrouds tighten?

 

[Sumner]

What are baby stays? Are they side lines to the mast to keep it from toppling before it approaches vertical and the shrouds tighten?

Yes....

... the two middle arrows above point to them,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

 

[fwild3]

What are baby stays?

 

[caguy]

I have a winch on a 7' aluminum 2x2 tube that I made up. The whole thing was less than $30. I like it because I feel like I have more control than using a gin pole and block and tackle. I can pause it at anytime and unhook any shrouds that get snagged. I usually do it alone and even with help it is basically a one man operation. The cost of making the pole/winch is a lot cheaper that getting a block and tackle You can use the one from your mainsheets but its a PITA to adapt.
Don't over think the deck plate. I simply used a 2" piece of aluminum channel or you can use ss channel. The plate is under compression so it's not going anywhere. I used a couple of lag screws no need for through holes and backing plates, as I mentioned the whole load is under compression.
To attach the end of the cable to the mast I wrap a 1/2" piece of rope with loop to which I hook the winch cable. I also use the same loop to attach the temporary baby stays. The anchors pad eyes are placed as far out to the side of the cabin roof as possible and about 2" forward of the tabernacle. Here is where you may want to use through hole screws as these are under tension. This will maintain the tension on the baby stays as the mast is raised. A helpful hint is to alway raise the mast while headed into the wind.

Here is a bunch of pictures I haven't posted in a while.

 

[fwild3]

So they support the mast side-to-side until the shrouds tighten? Thank you.

 

[fwild3]

I got it. Thank you.

 

[Sumner]

..I like it because I feel like I have more control than using a gin pole and block and tackle. I can pause it at anytime and unhook any shrouds that get snagged. I usually do it alone and even with help it is basically a one man operation.

If a person uses the block and tackle...

..they also have the option of pausing at any point using the cam cleat and I'll usually cleat off additionally to a cleat on the coaming. Ruth has been able to raise the mast with it.

If we left the system on shore I'd rather have the winch on the pole as you mentioned. If it is staying on the boat the pole and block and tackle. Ours came with the boat so we didn't have to make a decision about it ,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

 

[tkanzler]

And to what Sumner said, mine uses 5 parts of line on ball bearing blocks, and I can raise the mast with one hand, and don't bother with the cabin top winch. My shoulders are pretty shot, so this makes life easier.

I run the MRS line through the main halyard rope clutch, which wasn't standard equipment (the PO's added it), and can stop anywhere. I too cleat the line to an empty cleat as a backup.

 

[caguy]

If a person uses the block and tackle...
..they also have the option of pausing at any point using the cam cleat and I'll usually cleat off additionally to a cleat on the coaming. Ruth has been able to raise the mast with it.

If we left the system on shore I'd rather have the winch on the pole as you mentioned. If it is staying on the boat the pole and block and tackle. Ours came with the boat so we didn't have to make a decision about it ,

In addition to needing a cabin mounted winch, it then becomes a two person operation again. I like the crank pole because it also helps to control the lateral movements of the mast. What is the length of the rope that you use to go through the block system and then back to the winch. The rope alone would cost three times what the winch pole cost.
I have also seen people use the trailer winch with the strap running over the anchor roller to the gin pole. I have seen quite a few Corsair F27's raise their mast the same way.
BTW you will find articles that claim you can get a $15 brake winch at Walmart. As far as I know not in So. California. I settled on a ratchet winch from HF. The pole and base plate channel came from Industrial Metal's scrap pile, $2.65/lb.

 

[Sumner]

In addition to needing a cabin mounted winch, it then becomes a two person operation again...

Not to beat this to death, but for someone who might be reading this and trying to decide what is best for them you don't need two people with the factory setup (block and tackle). I've put the mast up and down a number of times by myself. You are just winching from a different location. The winch is on the S and D already.

True you do have to buy some line but we also...

...use the block and tackle with our outboard lift...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/outside-16.html

I think it comes down to if you want to have the mast raising system on the boat with you and prefer one over the other for storage. We want it and have used it on the water and others that have to go under bridges going in and out might also need to store it on the boat.

Lots of options that work, just pick the one you think will work best for you ,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

 

[Sailor 3269]

Boy have I got a lot of ideas about the mast raising systems, I do beleave I have all the things to make one or all of them,I thought of using a bat operated winch that I got from H/F with a remote that way I could be in the cockpit while I raised the mast,but the one I have that I got for 50 bucks a long time ago I think is a little to big and I would have to run more elect. Wiring to the bat. box, and the storing it or even bolting it to the bow, well I did like that ether, but I have a hand winch that I can use and I do have a gin pole that's over 6' and with the S/S bracket I have I do think I can make it all work, I want to thank you and everyone for all the ideas now all I have to do is pick one and put it together, and then I must send pictures

 

[tkanzler]

In addition to needing a cabin mounted winch, it then becomes a two person operation again. I like the crank pole because it also helps to control the lateral movements of the mast.

That's what the baby stays are for. I raise and lower mine essentially by myself, even when I have 'help'. Baby stays keep the mast in line, and all I need to do is tend the MRS line, stop and clear a snag once in a while, and continue.

BWY sells 54 ft of 5/16" line for the old-style MRS for $36 plus shipping. The PO's of my boat used the jib sheet, which was long and was attached with a cow hitch to the fitting, for the MRS. I keep a separate line on it for the convience. It's a one-time purchase, as it doesn't get used or weathered enough to need replacement in my lifetime.

And I would recommend against a ratchet winch for any MRS, as if you lose the handle, it'll break body parts if you try to stop it, and the mast will come crashing down if you don't. Not good either way.

 

[Grizmaster7]

Okay this may sound Dumb but why are the baby stays so important, mine didn't come with them, not sure if they ever had any, can someone explain?

 

[Sailor 3269]

This one I know the baby stays make sure when you are raising the mast by yourself or with help, the mast will not go from side to side, or over the side of the boat and bend the mast plate let's say you are raising the mast without the baby stays you take the chance of the mast going over the side,or did I say that again they help the mast to stay straight as you raise the mast

 

[Sailor 3269]

BTW as it has been pointed out to me a number of times their are NO dumb questions on this forum

 

[Sailor 3269]

Dumb questions

I just want you know as it has already been pointed out to me on a number of times already and I just joined this month just a few weeks ago, ask all you want and don't think you are asking a dumb question because their are no dumb questions here

 

[Sailor 3269]

Baby stays

Now everyone else can tell you where to attach them and how long they need to be

 

[tkanzler]

You can attach them almost anywhere you want on the mast, but the bottom end needs to be in line with the mast hinge. Think of the mast and baby stays as if it was one big solid object, with a long piano hinge across the whole mess. Now eliminate everthing but the part at the mast and at the two baby stays.

For decks where that's not possible, folks often but a short bridle on each side, with a connection for the baby stays that's in line with the mast hinge.

If you terminate the baby stays slightly forward of the mast hinge, assuming the mast lays down toward the stern, the baby stays will slacken as the mast is raised and the shrouds take over. Mine are in line, and I just leave them when the mast is up. I actually grab hold of them as I go forward, as I did with the rigid struts on my Hunter.

 

[Sailor 3269]

Thank - you for your quick response but I already have them they came with the boat and before I would buy the boat I wanted to make sure I could raise the mast and that is .when the PO made me aware of the importance of the baby stays I just hope Grizmaster7 reads these posts