More proposed boat fees

[rpwillia]

My comment

I went on there and commented today that they consider a 3 year period, allow electronic correspondence and renewal, and allow us to download our finished form so we can print them out ourselves. In that way they eliminate a lot of postage, paper and hands to work the renewals.

 

[Gunni]

I must be missing something.
What is the benefit of documenting your boat with the CG?
I still have to register with the state.
I see no benefit whatsoever with a secondary "licensing" or registration, except perhaps not having to put your state reg # on the hull.
What is the benefit? If any?

If you are eligible to Document a vessel, your State registration will be different, it is no longer State personal property. If you pay state tax property tax, you will save yourself thousands per year in property taxes. That, Federal supersedes State thing... I pay $10/ year to my state. You?

 

[anchorclanker]

Dude, anyone in this country can document a boat, and many do. More than half the sailboats at the local marinas are documented.

Further, a citizen does not have to have a direct stake in something to have an opinion about it or to have a comment on it, and it is foolish and childish of you to suggest such a thing. These are things which not only effect all boaters today, but if passed will effect future generations. I know your only interested in supporting the growth of a larger and more menacing bureaucracy, but many of us do not.

 

[anchorclanker]

If you are eligible to Document a vessel, your State registration will be different, it is no longer State personal property. If you pay state tax property tax, you will save yourself thousands per year in property taxes. That, Federal supersedes State thing... I pay $10/ year to my state. You?

Stop passing along misinformation. All states have the right to tax personal property, and federal boat documentation does not change that.

further, most any over 25 feet are all eligible.

 

[anchorclanker]

Documentation FAQ's

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp#02

 

[Gunni]

.

Stop passing along misinformation. All states have the right to tax personal property, and federal boat documentation does not change that.

further, most any over 25 feet are all eligible.

Like I said, you don't know what you are talking about. A Documented vessel is not subject to state personal property tax. I'm at a loss as to why you, someone not eligible to Federal Document seeks to insert themselves in the debate.

Keep googling!

 

[anchorclanker]

Read the FAQ's clown

 

[Gunni]

Gunni, we are ALL stakeholders where taxes are concerned!
Jack

Jack;
The subject Documentation Fee is not a tax, it is a user fee applicable only to those seeking to Federally Document their vessel. You, as a taxpayer are currently subsidizing those of us who Document our vessel yearly for no fee.

Thank you for this service!

 

[anchorclanker]

.

I'm at a loss as to why you, someone not eligible to Federal Document seeks to insert themselves in the debate.

Lets see, because maybe in the future I want to live somewhere on the gulf?

You should stop thinking, and start reading. You really have no clue about a lot of things your talking about.

 

[Rick D]

California Property Tax is administered at the County level to whom I pay $1K-ish a year for my documented vessel. I even pay $150-ish to the County for 'possessory tax' for the privledge of renting a municipal marina slip... that is in the same friggin' county.

 

[RichH]

I must be missing something.
What is the benefit of documenting your boat with the CG?
I still have to register with the state.
I see no benefit whatsoever with a secondary "licensing" or registration, except perhaps not having to put your state reg # on the hull.
What is the benefit? If any?

Several benefits of USCG documentation:
1. evidence of 'clear' chain/succession of title of ownership
2. Many foreign countries and their possession require a national registration for entry into their jurisdictions. If you show up in their waters with just a 'state registration' you will be fined.

For such an increase to be taken, state registered vessels that travel on USCG regulated waters (tidal, and other waters that have navigation control by USCG) should / will most probably also be assessed a fee. There are various statutes under law that could possibly prevent the exclusion of those with solely state registration and not paying this proposed 'federal user fee' and which led to all boats on federal controlled 'navigable' waters paying the infamous "Ted Kennedy Luxury Tax" based on their 'length' during the end of the 1980s and beginning of the 1990s.

Many of you may remember, the "Ted Kennedy Luxury Tax" of the late 80s and early 90s, applied to "personal owned" boats, aircraft, and high-end automobiles, etc., and which resulted in virtual total decimation of the US recreational boat-building industry with the net loss of 40,000 - 60,000+ jobs. Such a proposed increased TAX applied to current documented vessels will only cause a greater proportion of currently documented vessels to simply let that documentation lapse, especially those that do not travel to foreign countries - the vast majority of current documented recreational vessels. Those that do travel internationally will simply 're-flag' under foreign nation 'registry', thus, it will be enhanced windfall income revenue for Bermuda, many of the Caribbean British Islands, .... and especially the Marshall Islands, etc. States cannot directly tax foreign vessels under international law and past treaties, so such re-flagging will also cause state revenue income to be less.
The ensign of the Marshall Islands is indeed very pretty, and would look GREAT on the stern of my boat.

 

[Gunni]

California Property Tax is administered at the County level to whom I pay $1K-ish a year for my documented vessel. I even pay $150-ish to the County for 'possessory tax' for the privledge of renting a municipal marina slip... that is in the same friggin' county.

I think you will find California is assessing you a "use tax", not a property tax. Here in the Sailing Capital of the United States of America, we have more respect for the inherent greatness of the sailing industry, and do not seek to subvert the intent of our founder's wisdom regarding vessel Documentation.

 

[RichH]

Is that why the recent proposal of Maryland Governor OMalley to impose a ~1+% yearly boat / property tax was rejected?

The REJECTED 2012 proposal included: Vessels 32 feet to 45 feet would cost $250. Vessels 45 feet to 65 feet would cost $500. The registration fee for yachts over 65 feet would be $700. .... and which in anticipation of such proposed unsubstantiated increases, Annapolis and surrounding harbor dockage rentals plummeted and most/many foreign flagged yachts simply went elsewhere. The 'bill' was REJECTED for fear of the decimation of Maryland's boating and boating related industries.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

.

Like I said, you don't know what you are talking about. A Documented vessel is not subject to state personal property tax. I'm at a loss as to why you, someone not eligible to Federal Document seeks to insert themselves in the debate.

Keep googling!

This is, after all, the Internet. All any of us can do is identify those who make misleading statements, such as yours, and hope others are not easily led astray. Please stop posting misinformation.

 

[Rick D]

naw, it's A tax...

I think you will find California is assessing you a "use tax", not a property tax. Here in the Sailing Capital of the United States of America, we have more respect for the inherent greatness of the sailing industry, and do not seek to subvert the intent of our founder's wisdom regarding vessel Documentation.

You had me questioning myself. Everything I have says property tax, and so I looked to double check, and indeed it is a property tax. Again, it is county, not state. There is even a link to the State Franchise Tax Board handbook for appraisers which is about vessels and is a mind numbing 88 pages long.

 

[Steve Dion]

California charges 1% personal property tax on boats. They don't care where it is registered as long as it is their jursdiction when the assessment goes into affect. It does not make any difference if you have tags or documentation.

What do they do for this money? The gov't is just a bunch of blood sucking bastards that are always looking for more taxes, fees or whatever they want to call them.

 

[Gunni]

If it is a county property tax, I suppose it is being used to keep the schools open, and the police, fire and emergency response operational. At the expense of a vibrant marine industries economy and all of the related trades and economic activity. Because in the end, boaters can hoist sail, and move on to friendlier waters.

 

[mr_f]

For those complaining about the fee:

The breakdown of how they calculated the fee is relatively clear in the documents that have been posted: Total cost of administering renewals (broken down into several categories) divided by the total number of renewals per year. Right now this is being paid for primarily by a large number of people who do not document their boats (the general tax payers). I can't see why you would expect them to pay for it.

I think the arguments for multi-year renewals is valid. I think the argument for an up-front investment in the infrastructure to make this a simple online process is even more valid. But I also think you lose all credibility making those arguments when you start whining about the $26 fee you are going to get so others do not have to pay for your hobby. (Especially silly are those of you who don't have documented boats, since you are complaining about having your taxes lowered.) I hope you keep that in mind when posting comments to the CG site. A large voice for valid concerns will be much more effective than a bunch of people bemoaning this *giant* tax.

 

[Chris Patterson]

A man learns new things here everyday. I had no idea our founding fathers had anything to say about sailboats..

 

[anchorclanker]

Lacking Gunni's inability to read the FAQ's I linked to above regarding states rights, the crux of the matter is the formation of a new federal tax (fee, tax, call it what you will), that once initiated, will exist indefinitely. Since the founding of this country, and for the last 237 years, there has been no fee involved in documentation of vessels. Apparently that has never been an issue until today, and now, only because some bean counter see's a cash cow.

Also, those who would try to silence others opinions, because they dont feel we have a direct stake in the matter, should be ashamed of themselves. This is a decision that we are making that effects all American boaters, both recreational as well as commercial, and will remain in effect long after all of us pass from the earth. History has shown, that motions like this are never repealed, in fact its likely to be a foot in the door for additional fees, and the raising of those fees once established.

$26 doesnt sound like much. But rarely does govt spend our money wisely. In fact history has shown, they generally use the money to create new levels of bureaucracy to place further controls upon us, leading to greater fees and higher taxes. And lets not fool ourselves, extrapolated over the entire country, with potentially several million boats and vessels, is the equivalent of handing the govt an additional $26M to $52M and possibly more.

Remember too, that this is over and above state taxes and registration fees. Gunni is totally misinformed the documentation avoids states laws and regulations. It does not. If he, and others as misguided would simply read the FAQ prepared by the USCG, as well as study other sources such as their own states laws, you will see for yourselves.

And FYI, primarily due to some believing those of us in flyover states should shut our mouths, Arkansas currently has 1054 documented boats within the state. Oklahoma has even more, and Minnesota, way up at the top central part of the country has almost 4,500 documented vessels. To suggest that people who dont live directly on the coast should keep their mouths shut is simply ignorant and UN-american. These things effect all of us in one way or another, and if not today, directly, could have a direct effect upon us in the future. People who cant see that are simply blind, or ignorant.