They think it's funny, but it's not.

THECUSCUS · Apr 3, 2013

I thought they sounded familiar. I figured it would end up this way.

http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=150315

robertsapp · Apr 3, 2013

I've been following these guys since they started, as they have gone adrift after losing both anchors, had their sails blown out by a storm, suffered multiple engine failures, and now been dismasted. In the process, I think they have had to be towed to safety at least three times. But I have to admit I admire their spirit, because they don't appear to be giving up, when I think most others would have long since quit.

But I think the last thing we need is having to get some government agency's permission to own and operate a boat. Once you start trying to legislate against stupidity, you end up with a nanny-ish buearacracy that treats us all like children. Think Bloomberg and New York.

justsomeguy · Apr 3, 2013

The forestay, leading from the bottom of the jib to the top of the mast, broke off at the mast end. BJ ran to the cockpit. “We've got trouble.” Brian stepped up to the front of the boat to take a look. We decided immediately to lower the sails, and began to turn into the wind. It was then that things shifted from bad to really really really bad.

Skipper · Apr 3, 2013

Jackdaw said:
Regarding licencing in general, I assume you have a drivers licence for your car? ;^)

Driving on public roads, built with public money, is a privilege.
The ocean does not belong to the public, nor the government.

You could argue that many lakes, rivers, and harbors are owned by the public, in which case it's up to the public to decide if they want themselves licensed. However, I think that topic is outside of the main idea - offshore sailing.

capta · Apr 3, 2013

Jackdaw said:
Manifestly Unsafe Voyage??

http://www.newsherald.com/news/stranded-sailors-find-solace-in-pcb-1.121068?tc=cr

They joke that after all their mishaps, the Coast Guard is 'getting to know them pretty well now'.

I don't think it's funny. We all pay for their ineptitude.

The US is one of the few countries that does not require any certification to operate a large marine vessel. No experience required, just a checkbook. Should we?

I'm against further government involvement in our private boating. I encounter so many folks who are state licensed and for the most part these licensing courses seem to be income generators for the states, rather than educational programs for the boaters.
But I do feel that to be charged for any expenses involved in the rescue of persons from any "pleasure craft" should be instituted in the US. If it was going to cost 50 to 100 grand to call for help from a government agency, perhaps folks would not be so cavalier about going boating with the attitude that "someone" will save them and they do not have to be properly prepared or knowledgeable.
Those "messing about on boats" should have to take responsibility for their actions and decisions.

Skipper · Apr 3, 2013

In the article, one of the crew says, “Pretty much everything you need on a sailboat has failed since we’ve been here.”

Doesn't say much for Hunter

Uh oh, now I'm in for it.

Tim R. · Apr 3, 2013

Hmmm, forestay comes down and they turn into the wind. Looks like it could have been caused by a wrapped jib halyard. Things that are obvious to the experienced are not to newbies will get them killed.

robertsapp · Apr 3, 2013

Skipper said:
In the article, one of the crew says, “Pretty much everything you need on a sailboat has failed since we’ve been here.”

Doesn't say much for Hunter

Uh oh, now I'm in for it.

They bought a badly neglected 15 year old boat with what appears to be original everything and no mention of a survey. They slapped some bottom paint on it and took it to sea. They've then made a serious of really silly mistakes, several of which could have gotten them killed. But amazingly, the treacherous Hunter death trap that all real sailors know should never leave a protected lake has always gotten them back alive.

cb32863 · Apr 3, 2013

Seems they have more luck than sense. Also found a way to get themselves banned here. Maybe they need to "read the signs" that sailing really is not for them.

I find their cavalier attitude to be the most annoying. Along the lines of "Well, if we get in to any trouble, I am sure someone will rescue us". Entitlementitis.....

wufibugs · Apr 3, 2013

Is the Coast Guard running Hunters now? Just kidding. Having started my sailing carreer by single handing from LA to San Diego thinking the boat's sheets were things I would find stowed for use on the cabin cushions next to the pillows, I can ony repeat that sailing looks - and is - easy as long as everything goes well. It's when things get dicey that us posers are separated from sailors. One of the things I took away from Daniel's delightful book was that a lot can be said for doing a mess of reading before going to sea [which is not to say it is a perfect substitute for sailing lessons], and that some mechanical agility may be as or more valuable than sail trimming when problems arise [except for reefing and heaving to].

Ross · Apr 3, 2013

They allowed their mast to leave the boat so they are stuck for the near future.

Merlin Clark · Apr 3, 2013

Potential candidates for http://www.darwinawards.com/

Stu Jackson · Apr 3, 2013

capta said:
1. ...educational programs for the boaters.
2. But I do feel that to be charged for any expenses involved in the rescue of persons from any "pleasure craft" should be instituted in the US. If it was going to cost 50 to 100 grand to call for help from a government agency, perhaps folks would not be so cavalier about going boating with the attitude that "someone" will save them and they do not have to be properly prepared or knowledgeable.
3. Those "messing about on boats" should have to take responsibility for their actions and decisions.

1. Yes, but still voluntary, everyone learns differently. I don't know how many times I've suggested that people buy ARGGH, books, to learn complicated stuff like boat electrical systems. The "pushback" has always been: folks learn differently, some need to be shown. If that's the case, why ask on a forum, where the answers are in writing. :dance:

2. Slippery slope here. Last I heard, the CG members get paid whether or not they do the rescues. How do you propose to set up the "billing system?" It seems to be a "govt for profit" approach compared to why we pay taxes.

3. I agree, but as mentioned, you can't legislate stupidity. I guess about 99 and 44/100% of us are pretty decent, responsible skippers.

Sailvayu · Apr 3, 2013

Ok I cannot resist and have to add my worthless 2 cents lol
It is part of human spirit to set off unprepared into the unknown, it is our DNA. It is what has made our species different from all others. It is what has made us what we are.
Looking at their blog they do not seem as bad as some I have seen. They had a boat that on the surface seemed up to the task after all we are talking the Gulf and Bahamas not an Atlantic crossing. I have seen by far worse plying the waters. yeah they could have spent more time learning but one way to learn is get out and do things. I looked at the photos they took of the mast down and sea and wind conditions seemed pretty calm to me. What broke we may not know but it would seem like it could happen to almost anyone. Yeah maybe those with more experience could have saved it but it is easy to say sitting safe at home. So I say lets not be so hard on them.

Capt. Wayne Canning, AMS
www.projectboatzen.com

anchorclanker · Apr 3, 2013

There is a line between general incompetence, and outright complacency. No body knows everything, but most are willing to learn and ask questions. Others, no matter how many will tell them they are doing something wrong, want to bull their way through. Far too many people are going out without any working knowledge of engines and motors, wiring and electrical, basic seamanship, map reading, or even how to choose an appropriate boat.

I think its great we have a Coast Gaurd, and would glady welcome them if I ran into a life threatening situation. But I would rather go down with my boat, than have a long list of charges thrown at me about things I had not known, that I should have known, and refused to learn.

So while I dont like the idea of charging people who did the best they could do, learned all they could learn and who accepted advice and simply had bad luck, those who pursue a journey while failing to read and learn while thumbing their nose at others who give them advice, should pay for their hubris. There are enough idiots out there, falling through thin ice, sinking in inadequate boats, having minimal to non existent skills, and basically making the rest of the adult human population look bad.

There is another story going on in this forum which has all the promise of ending just as badly, if not worse. If we dont raise the bar ourselves, someone, some government authority, is going to raise it for us.

Sailvayu · Apr 3, 2013

Where do you draw this line? Who judges when someone is competent? I understand what you are saying but what solution do you think there is? It is at this point this would have to move into a discussion of individual freedoms and rights and this is not the place for that.
Perhaps a better direction to take would be how can we as boaters try to help others who clearly need some help. If we know more than others it is our obligation to share what we know.

Capt. Wayne Canning, AMS
www.projectboatzen.com

topcat0399 · Apr 3, 2013

Things like this get my goat - really.

Was Amelia Erhart entitled to massive search expenditure at tax payer expense?

Do 15 year olds sailing solo non stop around the world deserve tax payer support when they get into trouble?

To me these folks are ADVENTURERS; such as the Admiral and I are everytime we venture out on dasbOOt.

If the government sponsors some sort of "adventure" that's different. We can fix that at the voting booth. Or not.

If you are at a ski resort in the mountains - the ski patrol should be provided by the business as an enhancement to their product - if they want. Not smoky the park ranger.

If some idoit goes surfing in awful conditions and gets ripped out to sea - county parks problem? Or should they have privately prepared for the eventualities and consequences of their own choices.

The admiral and I have discussed a circumnavigation in our future and we have decided - no locator/distress equipment. We will self recover or not arrive.

No ones fault but ours.

robertsapp · Apr 3, 2013

cb32863 said:
Also found a way to get themselves banned here.

Wait, you mean you can get yourself banned? Why have I never been threatened with this? I need to up my game.

Seriously, I hope these two guys figure it out and make it work. I just hope they can quit putting others at risk in the process.