Yup... I've got the bug to go bigger... again... * balboa 20?*

[RussC]

About a year 1/2 ago I bought a little Snark sailboat on a whim, and the hook was set. I only sailed it a few times before purchasing an AMF Puffer. we really enjoyed that little boat a lot, but it really cramped my wife when she wanted to come along so I found a very nice older Capri 14.2, which is our current boat. it has a lot of cockpit room, for a small boat, handles well, etc., but as summer slips away we realize that any dinghy isn't a boat we want to be sailing during the cooler months, and we'd also like to have something that we could spend a night or two on, and travel within a few hundred mile range of home to do that. our "home lake" is ~3500 acres and an hour away, with nearly a dozen other lakes, both bigger and smaller, within easy day driving range.
Enter the quest for our perfect sailboat.
We don't exactly live in a hotbed of sailing activity, so choices are limited and often require a fairly long drive to see prospects in person.
Our requirements:
Usable cabin to overnight in for two adults.
Easy setup and breakdown, as we'll not be at any one place more than a few days at a time, and unwilling to pay extended mooring fees.
Stable and good self-righting to keep the first mate happy (and dry)
Swing keel for several "basic" boat ramps that we visit, and easy trailering.
I just missed buying a Balboa 20 recently, and that really sounded like my idea of the ultimate sailboat for us. unfortunately those don't come up for sale very often within our buying/driving range.
Of course we've looked at the Catalina 22, which do come up for sale near us, but I think that's pretty much the top edge of trailering and "easy" set-up for us. I'm reasonably fit at 65, but my wife has been through some cancer issues over the past couple of years and consequentially lost weight and strength from that, so I look to boats that I can pretty much single hand.
I guess my question would be: what other boats might come close to the Balboa 20 for our all-around needs? or should we just go the easy route and get a Catalina 22?

Thanks,
Russ & Jennifer

 

[Fernando Martinez]

Hi Russ,
If you are considering a Catalina 22 you may want to keep an eye out fora MacGregor 22 which also had a swing up keel. A step below the 22s are Com Pac 19 or even the 16 footer which has a small cabin, easy to tow and setup.
All the best!

FM

 

[tjar]

As one who too started out with small day sailboats, we ended up getting a MacGregor 26D. Either the C or D models are excellent to sail and will meet all of your requirements. We towed ours to several nearby lakes and even put it into Puget Sound regularly. With the pop-top open, it's very roomy for two people to spend the night.

 

[Siamese]

It's sure nice to have a 20 or 22 foot boat with enough cabin to allow an overnight stay. Trailering a boat like that is not my cup of tea, but some people claim to do it and enjoy it.

If it's available in your area, a nice alternative is to rent a parking spot for your boat right at the launch ramp, so you can store it with the mast up, and sails on.

 

[Zarathu]

West Wight Potter 19 does all those things and more. Most trailer them, but I put mine on a mooring.

 

[greenminnow]

A 17' Montgomery comes to mind for you. Check out the sail boats for sale and sail boat gallery at www.sailingtexas.com they have a wealth of info there for you along with prices that like boats have sold for.

Good Luck in your search, Brian

 

[hensonrick5]

Look at a Com Pac Sun Cat!

 

[greenminnow]

If you don't mind a cat rigged boat, and one that trailers and rigs easy the Com Pac
Sun Cat is Perfect as Hensonrick above points out.
Brian

 

[Daveinet]

I've pretty much concluded that 24ft is about max for easy setup and single handing. While it can be done with bigger boats - many do, for me I find it to be about right. I'm thinking about when I get older and won't want to handle a heavier mast, or heavier sails, that 24ft is a nice limit. For us, it has just enough space to feel secure, and not be in each other's face, but still small enough for one person to run around and attend anything that needs attending. This RL24 is very light - 1600lbs, so it is a little easier to push it around at the dock, and get it lined up for the trailer. I tend to think that some of the smaller boats that are heavier are more bulky, and may require more effort to setup and sail then the lighter, but longer boat. Something else of note - even though it is a light boat, it is not cored, so it does not have any structural integrity issues. Not sure how they built it so light, as it is solid - much better than my previous boat. I should also mention that it is fast and sails up wind like nobody's business. The first time you run down a 30 footer, you'll feel really good, when you catch up and hear his motor running, that will put a smile on your face.

Just a couple more thoughts on edit. In looking at the Balboa, the centerboard is under the boat, which means it sits higher on the trailer, so you need a deeper ramp to launch, as well as it will pull much harder behind your car. My 17 footer was built the same way, and it was march harder to pull at freeway speeds than my current boat.

Another thing to think about. Sometimes in the smaller boats, manufacturers like to cram in a lot of features. These features add weight, which slows the boat down. They also tend to make the inside space more cramped. Sure it looks nice, but may not be as practical in real life. Feature rich interiors are great for big boats, but in a smaller boat, space is the most important feature.

Just doing a weight comparison, the RL is 100lbs lighter than a Balboa 20, 800 lbs lighter than a Catalina 22.

 

[Benny17441]

It gets costly to upgrade boats in small steps. Balboa's are nice but you will soon outgrow it. I'm sure that for a similar price you can be able to find a 22' in just as good a shape.

 

[Brian S]

Some off the top of my head: Precision 18, Precision 21, Precision 23. O'day 20, O'day 22, O'day 192, O'day 222. Starwind 19. All these boats have a stub ballasted keel with a centerboard for better pointing. Simple fractional rigs with uppers and lowers. Hank on jibs would be easier to deal with for mast raising and unstepping than something with a furler. There are plenty of other boats out there that are similar. Hunter 18.5 had wing keel, as well as the Catalina Capri 18. They will require slightly steeper or deeper ramps to launch and retrieve. Easily solved with a trailer tongue extension.

 

[CaptDon01]

RussC,
Let me add my two cents and talk a little about the popular Catalina-22. There have been 4 versions of this popular family trailerable cruiser. The original versions were built from 1970 to 1985, and are the most popular versions that people associate with the C-22. They were available with the popular swing keel, and a fixed keel. In 1986, the "new design" C-22 came out, and included many improvements to the original design. The new design version came out with a wing keel version in 1988. In 1995 the factory came out with the MK-II version. These were available with the new swing keel, or a wing keel borrowed from the Capri-22. These were a major change in the C-22 with a wider hull, and redesigned cabin. Several years after the MK-II was introduced, the C-22 Sport came out, and it's more performanced based, and is only available with the new swing keel that came out with the MK-II. With the closure of the California factory in 2012, only the C-22 Sport remains in production currently.

No other boat in the Catalina-22 have a National Association like the C-22 enjoy. What ever your fancy, day sailing, cruising, or racing, there are active fleets all over the country that sponsor everything from weekend regattas to week long group cruises. The association also publishes a bi-monthly web based magazine called the MainBrace. The current copy is available to anyone on the associations web site. The next issue will come out the first of November, so checkout the current issue quickly. Association membership costs $25. a year, but membership also allows you to download your own PDF file of the C-22 Tech Manual. This is a collection of over 400 pages from over 40 years of just about anything you need to know about C-22 maintenance, repair, modifications, rigging, trailering, tuning, and more.

We currently own two C-22's. A 1988 swing keel version, and our flagship, a 2002 MK-II wing keel version. At most ramps, the swing keel versions are easily launched like any boat, with no need to extend the trailer tongue,(most factory Trail-Rite trailers), how ever our wing keel version requires us to slide out the tongue extension for launching and recovery.

We routinely trailer our C-22 5,000 to 6,000 miles a year. Earlier this year we trailered our C-22 to Florida for the annual North Gulf Coast Cruise. Right now there is a week long cruise along the southeast Georgia, northeast Florida coast going on. Next year we'll also join the annual Great Lakes Cruise. We've also sailed our C-22 numerous times on week long cruises to Catalina Island.

We're 60'ish and retired, and the factory came out with a mast raising system on the MK-II versions which allow us to easily and safely raise and lower the mast. You can read all about it in the next issue of the MainBrace.

Lot's of choices out there, but there must be a reason why there are so many C-22's out there, and still in production after 45 years with after market support, and a National Association second to none.

http://www.catalina22.org/

The attached photos show the height comparison of our wing keeled C-22 and our swing keeled C-22. Also shown is one of the days where we beached our C-22's along the intercoastal waterway during the North Gulf Coast Cruise,(we had 21 C-22's in this years cruise), and towing our C-22 behind our motorhome.

Don

 

[RussC]

Boy.. I'm getting dizzy from doing all this research and reading. thanks so much for all your suggestions and insight so far also.
My thoughts so far, weather right or wrong :
Although the Catalina 22 would be such a nice craft in the water, I'm really concerned about how it would fare for us as a trailer sailer. it's a bigger/more complicated/heavier to tow boat than any of my other choices so far. I retired 3 years ago, but I didn't retire well off enough to feel good about paying annual moorage fees (~ $900 locally). + I really don't like the idea of having my boat and contents sitting on the water unattended. I'm pretty sure we'd get tired of sailing the (only local one with moorage) same 3500 acre lake all the time anyway.
So…. the field has narrowed some, and now it's more a matter of what I can find within a reasonable distance, and at a price that we can justify. I like the looks/specs of the San Juan 21 a lot, and the Precision 21 and even the 18 look interesting. the Montgomery 17 might even be worth a look as well. I've pretty much discounted the small Potter and the cat boats as too quirky and not filling some of my requirements very well. The Balboa 20 still looks excellent to me also, but are rarely seen on the used market around here. I did run across an Ensenada 20 that looks pretty good however, and they actually have the same hull as the Balboa 20, but with a raised deck configuration. I'm waiting to hear back from it's current owner to get more info on it, and may have to go check that one out in person soon, if it's still available.
I'm not in a huge hurry to get another boat this time of year, so it's a great time for me to listen and learn before I buy another boat. I only have 4 acres of property to park them on, so I'll need to make the next one a keeper for a wile

Thanks again,
Russ

 

[CaptDon01]

RussC, Our last trip to Florida we towed our C-22 with our motorhome, but most of our long distance towing was accomplished with our Dodge Ram 1500, factory towing package, and the small V-8. The Ram has towed the C-22 to Florida and back to San Diego through Colorado. Last year we towed he to the C-22 Nationals south of Houston. So towing a C-22 doesn't require any special vehicle to comfortably tow them. She'll be making two more LONG trips within the next few months towing both our C-22's on our relocation to Southern Florida.

I agree, trailering is the way to go. We gave up our slip almost a year ago, and although it was nice to go down to the club and sometimes just relax on the boat, it's hard to justify the cost when you look at the bills at the end of the year.

The photo was taken overlooking Lake Dillon in Colorado on our return leg of our 2013 trip to Florida.

 

[RussC]

Thanks CaptDon01. you're really twisting my arm . I guess I shouldn't be too concerned about the actual towing of a 22, as I often towed 4000+ lb of car and trailer, with my current truck, until I recently gave up on building hot rods. I have a nice 01 Dodge ram 4x4 club cab with small v-8 also. What concerns me more is the stepping of the mast and getting things ready to sail (and transport again) pretty much by myself. My wife loves to come along with me, but her medical issues have left her pretty weak of late, so I have to be basically self sufficient for any heavy lifting etc.….. although I'm sure I can figure out a system to assist me there as well……... after all…. I've done engine/trans swaps, custom and restoration bodywork, paint, etc for years.... by myself….. in my tiny garage…… you're really twisting my arm now Don.

Russ

 

[CaptDon01]

Russ, I'm 62 and have limited use of my right arm due past injuries from a motorcycle accident in my youth, and then a bicycle accident a couple years ago. I routinely rig the boat myself, and on my MK-II C-22, the factory mast raising system makes this possible, it's just that easy. Now this is not the only method, there are lot's of ways to raise the mast by yourself, I just like the simplicity and ease that the Catalina system works on my boat. Now on my "new design" model C-22, I am thinking of adapting a MacGregor mast raising system for that boat, or I might just do the simple modification to the mast, and use the Catalina Factory system.

As for launching, my C-22 MK-II is a wing keel version so I need to slide out the built-in trailer tongue extension to launch and recover the boat. My swing keel C-22 can be usually launched without the trailer extension extended unless it's a shallow ramp.

There are two photos show how easy it is to launch the boat with our 24' motorhome. I simply rig the boat and drive to the ramp. Chock the trailer wheels and disconnect the motorhome. Turn the motorhome around and reconnect it to the front receiver hitch. Now I cam easily position the boat down the ramp and launch or recover it.

It really is no problem towing, rigging, and launching. Now to be fair, we've been at this for a number of years, so we've learned a lot by making mistakes. But's it's proven to be a viable way to continue enjoying sailing as we travel around the country exploring new destinations. And with the pop-top cover on our C-22's, we get standing headroom in the cabin when we spend the night either in a slip, or at anchor.

Something to think about.....in several of these photos where I'm raising the mast, I'm also taking the photos of the process. That's how rough it is....

 

[Sumner]

.... What concerns me more is the stepping of the mast and getting things ready to sail (and transport again) pretty much by myself..

Not saying it is the right boat for your needs but take a look a least at the Macgregor 26 S (swing keel) and 26 D (daggerboard). Both are light on the trailer with a dry weight of 1800 lbs. and both....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html

... are very easy to launch and raising the mast can be a snap for one person if you have the mast raising kit. The shrouds and back-stay are attached at all time so you winch the mast up in a couple minutes (can pause at any time) and pin the forestay and you are done. Guys typically launch within 30-45 minutes of getting to the ramp and ...

... they will launch easily anywhere since they sit so low on the trailer. You get a big boat with plenty of room for you and supplies for trips, they are fast on the water and as light on the trailer as most 20 foot boats and are reasonably priced. It has been an easy boat to tow from Utah to Canada and Florida twice and has been great for some long trips on the water,

Sumner

=================================================

1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac

Endeavour 37 Mods...

MacGregor 26-S Mods...
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[RussC]

That's a really nice craft there Sumner, but I think 26' is just more boat than we need or want right now. In fact I'm still on the fence about a 22 . Which elicits the question… How does boat speed and light air ability fit in to all of this? I know I've really enjoyed sailing our Capri 14.2 around the many 22+ footers in our area for those reasons, but I guess speed isn't everything…… or is it? . I would think most of the lighter 20 footers would do better than most 22'+ boats that weigh 500-1000 pounds more. or am I mistaken on that?
The Ensenada owner returned my inquiry and says the sails are "older with some repairs but usable" which of course means they needed replacing 10 years ago. the rest of the boat looks reasonably well maintained, from the photos, but needing new sails, the costs may still not add up. he's asking 2300 so he'd likely take 2000, but still….
huummm. maybe I need to drive the 3 hours each way and see the Ensenada 20 in person, just to educate myself a bit more, if nothing else.
Russ

 

[RussC]

OK. I have it figured out. after I purchased our Capri 14.2 the owner handed me a really nice Forespar wisker pole. he said he knew it didn't fit the Capri very well, but he didn't need it, so it was a gift.
Forespar brand and extends from 6'3" out to about 11'6" . what size boat would this be useful for? I'll just buy that size boat and we'll be all set.

Russ

 

[Daveinet]

How does boat speed and light air ability fit in to all of this? I know I've really enjoyed sailing our Capri 14.2 around the many 22+ footers in our area for those reasons, but I guess speed isn't everything…… or is it? . I would think most of the lighter 20 footers would do better than most 22'+ boats that weigh 500-1000 pounds more. or am I mistaken on that?

Yes, speed is everything, which is why I bought the RL24. All of the boats listed rate in the 220+ region. The RL rates 174. If you like passing other boats, its about the only trailer sailor that will do it, especially up wind, other than a Holder 20. But the Holder has a pretty small cabin.

Something you should really look at when considering size limit is the weight of the mast. IMHO, if you can pick up the whole mast, then the boat is not too big. While most mast raising techniques do not require being able to pick the whole mast up, you really don't want to be handling something that you could not completely pick up of you had to. If you can't, then the weight of one end can still knock you off balance, and is going to be more than you will want to deal with. Generally, I never need to pick up more than one end, but it is easy enough to do. I know that if something goes wrong, I'm still going to be in control. If I need to lift one end above my head I can lift it with one hand. I would not step the mast without a gin pole and system, but I still need to know that while the mast is laying on the boat, I can maneuver it anywhere I need to. I would suggest that more than anything else governs my limits as to what I feel I can handle by myself.

My observation is that once you get to the 25 footers, then you start into a different category of boat, even though they may still be trailerable. When you hit that size, the weight goes up, you have a lot of freeboard, and the cabin is much more house like. Under that size, the boats are typically much lower profile, easier to handle, and are much more dingy like. For ease of handling, I don't see much difference between my previous 17 footer with a cabin, compared to my 24 footer. In my case, the 24 footer sails soooo much better than the 17 footer, it is much easier to sail. It requires much less effort as you don't have to dive for the main sheet any time a good gust comes along. The longer boat has much better directional stability, so even though it is larger, it is less intimidating to sail.