You May Think You're Insured But ...................

Jan 4, 2006
6,444
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
As well as a few other earth shaking events in my life, my insurance comes up on July 31. A few buddies and myself were spending a sunny afternoon sitting around solving the problems of the world and I happened to bring up my upcoming insurance. And what do you know, one of the guys is an insurance adjuster. He tells us he was recently given a claim where a mother had insured a large, high powered, speed boat. The policy had lots of collision, lots of liability and would protect the owner against any eventuality.

At some time, it seems she loaned the boat to her son who managed to pile it up good, really good. The boat was totalled, several people in the boat suffered life altering injuries, and there was property damage to others. The insurance claim was in the millions which the insurance policy should have covered nicely.

The adjuster who was telling this story went over the details and quickly stamped it CLAIM DENIED. Seems the mother had a Pleasure Craft Operators Card when she applied for the coverage but the son had no boating certification of any kind. Much like 50% of the irresponsible clowns in my marina. And I'm sure as Canadians, we all know those proof of competency laws well:

https://www.laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-96-313/page-4.html

Competency.JPG


So I got out a magnifying glass and took a look at my 1998 policy and there buried in the fine print we find this little nugget:

Licensing.JPG



My insurance is coming due for July 31 and so I spoke to my insurance broker about this. They informed me that in a case like that, ALL insurance associated with the boat with the unlicensed operator would be null and void. They also said that no responsible insurance company would issue a policy without proof of competency. (I also happen to believe in the Roswell Incident).

Now for the next grabber, if you were to find yourself an innocent victim of this unlicensed operator, you would now become liable for any and all injury claims in your boat. My insurer said I may want to look at my "uninsured boater" listing and increase this to cover my liability or else increase my personal liability through my homeowner's policy.

Any way you look at it, in this case the owner of the speed boat is probably facing bankruptcy and anyone injured is now suing (the bankrupt owner) to recover damages.

Not too good for Canadians when dealing with irresponsible boaters. Is it any better south of the border ?
 
May 27, 2004
1,964
Hunter 30_74-83 Ponce Inlet FL
Nope, Worse!
We have mandatory 'certification' on a state by state basis.
Some states do, others don't.
Many people ignore the law. And since it's based on a "grandfathered" out clause for people who were over a certain age at the time of adoption, many never had to get certified.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Not too good for Canadians when dealing with irresponsible boaters. Is it any better south of the border ?
At least my policy doesn't have that clause.

Canada has not cornered the market on irresponsible boaters.

NY is somewhere in the process of requiring mandatory boater education for all boaters. They have it for jet skis and kids, but not yet for adults. One branch of the legislature has approved the bill, not sure where it stands with the other branch.
 
May 12, 2004
1,502
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
Here in Fl. you need a "boater safety card" if you were born after Jan. 1, 1988 and drive any boat of 10 hp or more. You can get that on-line in about an hour. No experience required. Other than that all it takes is to buy a boat, borrow one, or a credit card to rent. Go figure! I carry liability only and no one but me takes my boat out.
 
Jun 2, 2004
3,390
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
Here in Fl. you need a "boater safety card" if you were born after Jan. 1, 1988 and drive any boat of 10 hp or more. You can get that on-line in about an hour. No experience required. Other than that all it takes is to buy a boat, borrow one, or a credit card to rent. Go figure! I carry liability only and no one but me takes my boat out.
The boaters safety card requirement does not apply to rentals. Pontoon boats jet skis none of them.

When you see a bunch of tourist on a rental boat go the other way.
 

RussC

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Sep 11, 2015
1,578
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
Here in Fl. you need a "boater safety card" if you were born after Jan. 1, 1988 and drive any boat of 10 hp or more. You can get that on-line in about an hour. No experience required. Other than that all it takes is to buy a boat, borrow one, or a credit card to rent. Go figure! I carry liability only and no one but me takes my boat out.
I recently acquired a power boat (ya I know ;) ) that requires a boater education card to operate in the state of Oregon. it was certainly no one hour deal here. it took better than 5 hours to complete online and even though I've owned and operated power boats for 60+ years it required considerable study in order to get a passing grade. I was impressed at how in depth it was, but I also have to wonder at just how many of the yahoos on the water each summer weekend actually have this card. I don't recall ever being asked for one in years past when I owned ski boats etc (I was grandfathered in at the time and didn't require one). the best laws only work when enforced.
BTW. I noticed that in Oregon the rental boats do NOT require a card to operate, so..... ya, extra caution is in order when near one of those.
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,123
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
This would present a relativity routine coverage question in the US. And so that means a visit to Mr. Solicitor and or maybe Mr. Proctor/Barrister.

Here is why. The insurance contract says the owner promises that the operator will be licensed. But - and this is important - the insurer is not entitled to deny coverage because the General Conditions (what we call exclusions) do not permit the insurer to deny coverage simply because an operator is not licensed.

The insurer might have an argument if the lack of a license itself caused the collision. Or - or put another way - if the operator had possessed a licence then would that license have prevented the collision? The answer seems obvious - there is probably no evidence that the behavior of the operator would have changed simply because he was licensed.

Canada is not US. However this is an admiralty case and if so that means US and Canada law is identical.

Charles
 
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Jul 28, 2018
57
Catalina 22 TX
It's a good reminder, as many people who were childern or not born when the laws were enacted are now adults.

Very surprised that there was no reminder of this included in my recent titling, registration renewal and even visit to the physical office.... An envelope insert would seem easy to include with every registration sticker...
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
In LA, boater education card is required for anyone born after Jan 1, 1984, who operates a boat with > 10hp motor.
There are also age specific limitations. Online, USPS, and USCGA courses are sufficient to obtain the card.
Just renewed my insurance yesterday. There were two specific questions regarding if I was the only operator, if not, the other operators were to be listed.
 
Jan 4, 2006
6,444
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Very surprised that there was no reminder of this included in my recent titling, registration renewal and even visit to the physical office.... An envelope insert would seem easy to include with every registration sticker...
Perhaps not so surprising. We'd like to take your premium but we won't compensate you if our fine print allows us to do so because of a lack of proof of competency.

Only way to get around this is:

a) be a responsible boater.
b) be an insurance savvy boater.
c) protect yourself with bags of liability insurance.
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
In MS, we have laws on the insurer too.
Before any claim...
You, the boat owner, is the Plaintive and must prove your case to the "kangaroo court" of the claims agent.

The big HOWEVER....
Once the claim is Denied, the roles are reversed by MS law.
The insurer becomes the Plaintive and must PROVE his case versus the now Defendant, the insured !!

Now here is the big "kicker" which broke the Claims Denial log jam after Katrina.

If a court finds that the Insurance company acted by denying in "Bad Faith" [trying to screw people to save money],

The jury can add "Treble Damages" and court costs to the original claim!!!
____
One claim, in which I was an "Expert Witness", for the Defendant with a $1.5 million claim, only get $15,000.

Right before court, they settled for $1.8 million and legal fees. Why?
We could prove "Bad Faith" in a mediation. Thus they avoided a possible " 3x$1.5M or $4.5 million!!

I would hire an attorney and fight it , like..

if the operator had possessed a licence then would that license have prevented the collision? The answer seems obvious - there is probably no evidence that the behavior of the operator would have changed simply because he was licensed.
:plus::plus::plus:

Jim...
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,041
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I have no sympathy for the insurance woes of anybody whom acts irresponsibly. I have more interest in the coverage for innocent victims. In the case Ralph mentions, the bodily injury victims appeared to be guests on the boat. He mentions just property damage otherwise. I would assume that health insurance of the guests (or national health coverage) would satisfy the hospital claims. I would assume that property owner's insurance would cover the property damages. I would assume that the various insurance companies would settle over the coverages for those claims.

If injuries occurred to people in the boat of an innocent victim, I'm not understanding why the innocent victim should be overly concerned about the liability coverage. If the innocent victim had guests on board whom were injured and subsequently went to the hospital for treatment. Why would the innocent boater's liability need to kick in (assuming no blame) when insurance is available from the victim's insurance to cover immediate needs?
 

Dr. D

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Nov 3, 2018
272
Beneteau Oceanis 35.1 Herrington Harbour North
An umbrella insurance policy is often a good idea.
 
Jan 4, 2006
6,444
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
If the innocent victim had guests on board whom were injured and subsequently went to the hospital for treatment. Why would the innocent boater's liability need to kick in (assuming no blame) when insurance is available from the victim's insurance to cover immediate needs?
Our provincial medical insurance (BCMSP) would cover their immediate medical bills but in the case of permanent bodily damage such as a lost head and loss of employment, the family's lawyers need someone to sue. If the unlicensed operator was already facing heavy costs and possible bankruptcy, you, the licensed operator would probably be their next victim of choice.

At this point, my insurance adjuster buddy (and the insurance company) washed their hands of the whole deal and went of to spend the premium (I would imagine).
 
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May 12, 2004
1,502
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
The boaters safety card requirement does not apply to rentals. Pontoon boats jet skis none of them.

When you see a bunch of tourist on a rental boat go the other way.
Rick, I feel you may be wrong on this matter. The charter/rental company I captain for here in Fl. does require every renter born after 1/1/88 to have a boater safety card. Maybe some companies just ignore that. Enforcement is pretty sparse, however.
I do, as a matter of fact, agree with your last statement.
 
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jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
US: an umbrella policy won't cover you if the primary insurer denies coverage. That is all.
 
Jun 2, 2004
3,390
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
Our provincial medical insurance (BCMSP) would cover their immediate medical bills but in the case of permanent bodily damage such as a lost head and loss of employment, the family's lawyers need someone to sue. If the unlicensed operator was already facing heavy costs and possible bankruptcy, you, the licensed operator would probably be their next victim of choice.

At this point, my insurance adjuster buddy (and the insurance company) washed their hands of the whole deal and went of to spend the premium (I would imagine).

The vendor is required to give the renter a "Safety Course" and issue a temporary certificate. As Mickey Mouse as the real course is you can imagine how it and miss the quality of the temporary certificates are. Some may do an excellent job they would be in the minority.