Found this post of a 1980 Catalina 30 on Yachtworld. Why on earth do these owners just screw new things into whatever open spot they find (referring to the nav table image)? This guy wants $25.5k for his. I think that is too much, given the overall appearance of the boat. What do you think? Look at the pictures the broker has taken of the boat. It doesn't look very well taken care of to me. I would be amazed if this one sold anywhere near that asking price. On another topic - houses can be flipped for profit with some cosmetic improvements. Do you think boats could be flipped also?
Yet another bonehead trying to sell his boat...
- Thread starter Rob 1981 Cat 3019642
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Yes you can flip boats..
I've flipped many and for tidy profits and some elbow grease. Condition, condition, condition with boats is the same a location, location, location with homes! My last three boats were sold to the first buyer who looked at the boat. Coincidence I think not! Many on this forum whine that they don't have the time and prefer to sail rather than take care of a huge capitol investment. I don't buy it! I then hear these same types bitching and moaning when it comes time to sell that a buyer is nickel and diming them on condition, deck core issues that were not addressed, running/standing rigging that needs replacement etc.. You can't have it both ways. Clean boats sell very quickly and for top dollar! It's currently 7:02 am, here in Maine, and I just got back from an hour and a forty five minutes at the boat yard. No time away from family, my wife just got up, and an hour and forty five of boat work. If you want to do something right you make the time just like you make the time to go sailing. I'm an early riser and as such usually have plenty of time before work to get projects done. Where there's a will there's a way.. When looking for my next boat, which we will be closing on in mid May, I looked at well over 30 boats. Many of these I did not even need to go aboard once I arrived at the location and saw the bottom paint condition and over all exterior care. Some of these boats, described as 8 to 10's by the broker, had lichen growing on the teak!
I've flipped many and for tidy profits and some elbow grease. Condition, condition, condition with boats is the same a location, location, location with homes! My last three boats were sold to the first buyer who looked at the boat. Coincidence I think not! Many on this forum whine that they don't have the time and prefer to sail rather than take care of a huge capitol investment. I don't buy it! I then hear these same types bitching and moaning when it comes time to sell that a buyer is nickel and diming them on condition, deck core issues that were not addressed, running/standing rigging that needs replacement etc.. You can't have it both ways. Clean boats sell very quickly and for top dollar! It's currently 7:02 am, here in Maine, and I just got back from an hour and a forty five minutes at the boat yard. No time away from family, my wife just got up, and an hour and forty five of boat work. If you want to do something right you make the time just like you make the time to go sailing. I'm an early riser and as such usually have plenty of time before work to get projects done. Where there's a will there's a way.. When looking for my next boat, which we will be closing on in mid May, I looked at well over 30 boats. Many of these I did not even need to go aboard once I arrived at the location and saw the bottom paint condition and over all exterior care. Some of these boats, described as 8 to 10's by the broker, had lichen growing on the teak!
Looks can be deceiving..
A mid 80's Catalina 30 on Lake Ontario will sell from $45,000 and up so price often depends on location and demand. Sure the boat looks like a mess but that doesn't mean problems, perhaps a good cleanup job. A good friend of ours bought his "perfectly clean" boat two years ago to end up replacing the engine and having deck work done. His boat is now so "expensive" that he'll either keep it forever or take a huge "cut" in selling. Good luck and get a good surveyor to verify the boats condition.
A mid 80's Catalina 30 on Lake Ontario will sell from $45,000 and up so price often depends on location and demand. Sure the boat looks like a mess but that doesn't mean problems, perhaps a good cleanup job. A good friend of ours bought his "perfectly clean" boat two years ago to end up replacing the engine and having deck work done. His boat is now so "expensive" that he'll either keep it forever or take a huge "cut" in selling. Good luck and get a good surveyor to verify the boats condition.
Spelling
You'd think a yacht dealer would know how to spell nautical terms... This boat has 300' of anchor "road". And also, just as in selling a house, a boat should be cleaned / tidied up prior to showing or taking pics. That boat is a mess! My $.02 worth.
You'd think a yacht dealer would know how to spell nautical terms... This boat has 300' of anchor "road". And also, just as in selling a house, a boat should be cleaned / tidied up prior to showing or taking pics. That boat is a mess! My $.02 worth.
Right ?
"A mid 80's Catalina 30 on Lake Ontario will sell from $45,000 and up" Really? There are currently 21 mid 80's Catalina 30's listed for sale in the NE. The search on YachtWorld including the Lake Ontario area which included mid 80's years of 1984 to 1987. The highest ASKING price for a 1984 to 1987 Catalina 30 is 40,577.00 (this guys smoking something funny) and the lowest is a 1986 for $23,000.00. Selling prices (using Soldboats.com) show mid 80's C30's at an average selling price of about $27,950.00. It cracks me up how people can pull numbers from thin air and make them up on the spot. Ask your broker to do a Soldboats.com search for you before you list so you have an idea of what the real selling price is not just the asking prices. Just so you know there have been no 1984 to 1987 C30's in the last six years that have sold for over 45k in the entire NE.
"A mid 80's Catalina 30 on Lake Ontario will sell from $45,000 and up" Really? There are currently 21 mid 80's Catalina 30's listed for sale in the NE. The search on YachtWorld including the Lake Ontario area which included mid 80's years of 1984 to 1987. The highest ASKING price for a 1984 to 1987 Catalina 30 is 40,577.00 (this guys smoking something funny) and the lowest is a 1986 for $23,000.00. Selling prices (using Soldboats.com) show mid 80's C30's at an average selling price of about $27,950.00. It cracks me up how people can pull numbers from thin air and make them up on the spot. Ask your broker to do a Soldboats.com search for you before you list so you have an idea of what the real selling price is not just the asking prices. Just so you know there have been no 1984 to 1987 C30's in the last six years that have sold for over 45k in the entire NE.
People are nuts
I bought a Hunter 25.5 from a guy who wanted $5000.00 for it. It needed a new outboard New cabin sole New bulk heads New cushion. I offered $1500.00 and told him what was wrong with his boat. He told me I was crazy and he paid $10,000 for it. I gave him my phone number and told him to call me if anything changes. He called me by the end of the day. Did all the work myself and have a almost new boat inside. The motor and the sails is what cost the most. ouch. Clif
I bought a Hunter 25.5 from a guy who wanted $5000.00 for it. It needed a new outboard New cabin sole New bulk heads New cushion. I offered $1500.00 and told him what was wrong with his boat. He told me I was crazy and he paid $10,000 for it. I gave him my phone number and told him to call me if anything changes. He called me by the end of the day. Did all the work myself and have a almost new boat inside. The motor and the sails is what cost the most. ouch. Clif
Thanks For the Exposure
And thanks to this post just think of all the exposure this guy is geting for his boat.........
And thanks to this post just think of all the exposure this guy is geting for his boat.........
Easy to flip?
So your saying its easy to flip if you know what to buy in advance? I guess your right but I wonder how one could make a living off doing so. I would love to just fix up boats for a living and sell them but when I run the numbers, time and risk....I just go back to my desk job. I paid 7k for my '78 Catalina 30. It needed a diesel overhaul/rebuild and the rigging needed a complete upgrade as well. I was careful with everything I did - made sure I seeked the right advice (mainly from these forums) and now have a boat in tip-top shape. Everything works and is completely up to date....but at the end of the day its still a Catalina 30 from 1978....probally could not fetch more than 17 or 18k but thats ok with me b/c its a long-term hold for me and I am not looking to sell her anytime soon.
So your saying its easy to flip if you know what to buy in advance? I guess your right but I wonder how one could make a living off doing so. I would love to just fix up boats for a living and sell them but when I run the numbers, time and risk....I just go back to my desk job. I paid 7k for my '78 Catalina 30. It needed a diesel overhaul/rebuild and the rigging needed a complete upgrade as well. I was careful with everything I did - made sure I seeked the right advice (mainly from these forums) and now have a boat in tip-top shape. Everything works and is completely up to date....but at the end of the day its still a Catalina 30 from 1978....probally could not fetch more than 17 or 18k but thats ok with me b/c its a long-term hold for me and I am not looking to sell her anytime soon.
Four Years Ago
When we were searching for a boat four years ago there were a lot of C30's on the market. We almost bought one for $20K with a newly rebuilt engine. C30's were the most abundant boats in our price range. It is a buyer's market with a lot of boats available. Unfortunately when people lose interest in sailing their boat usually sits for a few years before they actually try to sell the thing. Sitting out in the weather on the water isn't good for anything. If you know boats and can repair hem yourself you can probably make money flipping. But you could also get stuck with a boat that the repairs cost more than the boat's market value. A boat in mint condition is worth more than one that has been neglected but people will only pay so much for an old boat. There is also the 20 year rule. A lot of insurance companies will not insure a boat over 20 years old. We were rejected by several companies when looking for insurance for our 27 year old boat.
When we were searching for a boat four years ago there were a lot of C30's on the market. We almost bought one for $20K with a newly rebuilt engine. C30's were the most abundant boats in our price range. It is a buyer's market with a lot of boats available. Unfortunately when people lose interest in sailing their boat usually sits for a few years before they actually try to sell the thing. Sitting out in the weather on the water isn't good for anything. If you know boats and can repair hem yourself you can probably make money flipping. But you could also get stuck with a boat that the repairs cost more than the boat's market value. A boat in mint condition is worth more than one that has been neglected but people will only pay so much for an old boat. There is also the 20 year rule. A lot of insurance companies will not insure a boat over 20 years old. We were rejected by several companies when looking for insurance for our 27 year old boat.
It takes a lot of energy to resist entropy
I think the best way to make a good living by flipping boats (or houses) is to not look too closely at the accounting of time and materials. If you keep close track of all that you spend and the hours of labor (multiplied by what you can make at work), you may find that you could make more flipping burgers. That does not mean it is always a bad idea to buy a fixer-upper. It is a technique used by those with limited resources to get their foot in the door (water). The trade-off is that since you did not have the resources to get what you want with mere money, you need to invest more value in a form (hard labor)that you have plenty of. That being said, if one takes care of the boat they own properly. They will reap huge benefits not only from an easy sale when the time comes but more importantly from having a proper vessel to use while they own it. It may be true that there are boats out there that are beautifully waxed but mechanically unsound do to ignoring scheduled maintainence tasks, but I bet there are not too many boats that look like a P.O.S. but also have an owner who kept up on all of the maintainence that needs to be done.
I think the best way to make a good living by flipping boats (or houses) is to not look too closely at the accounting of time and materials. If you keep close track of all that you spend and the hours of labor (multiplied by what you can make at work), you may find that you could make more flipping burgers. That does not mean it is always a bad idea to buy a fixer-upper. It is a technique used by those with limited resources to get their foot in the door (water). The trade-off is that since you did not have the resources to get what you want with mere money, you need to invest more value in a form (hard labor)that you have plenty of. That being said, if one takes care of the boat they own properly. They will reap huge benefits not only from an easy sale when the time comes but more importantly from having a proper vessel to use while they own it. It may be true that there are boats out there that are beautifully waxed but mechanically unsound do to ignoring scheduled maintainence tasks, but I bet there are not too many boats that look like a P.O.S. but also have an owner who kept up on all of the maintainence that needs to be done.
Flipping boats
There was an article in the May/June 2006 issue of Good Old Boat magazine, "Confessions of a Bottom Feeder", a sort of "how-to" flip boats for fun and (minimal) profit. According to the author, the key is to find boats that are sound but really filthy; if all it needs is elbow grease and minimal work, it can be flipped for a profit. In the author's experience, no matter how unique, beautiful or otherwise great a boat may be, it probably can't be flipped for a profit if it needs major work.
There was an article in the May/June 2006 issue of Good Old Boat magazine, "Confessions of a Bottom Feeder", a sort of "how-to" flip boats for fun and (minimal) profit. According to the author, the key is to find boats that are sound but really filthy; if all it needs is elbow grease and minimal work, it can be flipped for a profit. In the author's experience, no matter how unique, beautiful or otherwise great a boat may be, it probably can't be flipped for a profit if it needs major work.
Flipper
If running gear and hullgel are sound, older sailboats are a good flipper. Not too old. Gel coat, wood, stainless, decks, canvas, interior clean and fresh(no dieselsewage smell). Have a pro polish the gel($400-$500) and varnish the wood($200-$400) a good, smooth, clean varnish job. No slop jobs like you always see on crap boats that someone went to home depot and bought a can and a brush..... replace the canvas, yes, pay the $1,000, work hard on the interior, every nook and cranny looking for mold, etc. Replace old zink or shabby bits such as locker hasps, hinges, cleats, etc, with stainless, these are relatively cheap. Small bits make a big difference on an otherwise clean boat. Replace the running lines with suitable format however choose and coordinate colors that accent your hull and canvas. Sounds girly but it works for sellability. Analyze parts that you don't like, if you don't like it, the buyer own't either. IE: A piece of teak in the interior that looks faded or worn enough to offset the oveall appearance, fix it. A corroded light fixture, replace it and any that match. For about $3gr, the difference is amazing and can raise the value by twice that. Of course, when it's done you may want to keep it. If your boat is too far gone then nevermind, it'll never look right.
If running gear and hullgel are sound, older sailboats are a good flipper. Not too old. Gel coat, wood, stainless, decks, canvas, interior clean and fresh(no dieselsewage smell). Have a pro polish the gel($400-$500) and varnish the wood($200-$400) a good, smooth, clean varnish job. No slop jobs like you always see on crap boats that someone went to home depot and bought a can and a brush..... replace the canvas, yes, pay the $1,000, work hard on the interior, every nook and cranny looking for mold, etc. Replace old zink or shabby bits such as locker hasps, hinges, cleats, etc, with stainless, these are relatively cheap. Small bits make a big difference on an otherwise clean boat. Replace the running lines with suitable format however choose and coordinate colors that accent your hull and canvas. Sounds girly but it works for sellability. Analyze parts that you don't like, if you don't like it, the buyer own't either. IE: A piece of teak in the interior that looks faded or worn enough to offset the oveall appearance, fix it. A corroded light fixture, replace it and any that match. For about $3gr, the difference is amazing and can raise the value by twice that. Of course, when it's done you may want to keep it. If your boat is too far gone then nevermind, it'll never look right.
Parting Out Old Boat
It is kind of like sending a horse to the glue factory. Sometimes a thousand pound horse isn't worth $200 except as meat. But I wonder if one could make money junking boats. My boat has #4500 of lead in the keel. Lead has value. Mast engine winches etc might be worth something. Even the mast is pure aluminum and that has value. I guess that you'd have to have property next to the water and some equipment. Even old iron keels have value as scrap metal. Anyone ever heard of scraping boats for profit??? If so who??
It is kind of like sending a horse to the glue factory. Sometimes a thousand pound horse isn't worth $200 except as meat. But I wonder if one could make money junking boats. My boat has #4500 of lead in the keel. Lead has value. Mast engine winches etc might be worth something. Even the mast is pure aluminum and that has value. I guess that you'd have to have property next to the water and some equipment. Even old iron keels have value as scrap metal. Anyone ever heard of scraping boats for profit??? If so who??
Tom, I've scrapped
Bought a fixer-upper a couple years ago, then gave up. Sold the Yanmar, furler, and whisker pole on eBay. Broke even on what I paid for the boat. Only got $.10 a pound for the #2600 keel and about $15.00 for the mast. Unless there is some equipment worth something, Scrap really isn't worth it. Also sold the bare hull on eBay for $62.00. It is amazing what some people will buy.
Bought a fixer-upper a couple years ago, then gave up. Sold the Yanmar, furler, and whisker pole on eBay. Broke even on what I paid for the boat. Only got $.10 a pound for the #2600 keel and about $15.00 for the mast. Unless there is some equipment worth something, Scrap really isn't worth it. Also sold the bare hull on eBay for $62.00. It is amazing what some people will buy.
They write books about restoration
Try Don Casey's Good Old Boat, and many more. It appears from this input that flipping boats is about as specious as flipping houses (that TV show my wife watches shows that more $ is lost than made - so stop dreaming...). Maine's right, keep YOUR boat in tip top condition and lookin' good. I feel a lot better doing that than whining about altogether too many neighbors' neglect.
Try Don Casey's Good Old Boat, and many more. It appears from this input that flipping boats is about as specious as flipping houses (that TV show my wife watches shows that more $ is lost than made - so stop dreaming...). Maine's right, keep YOUR boat in tip top condition and lookin' good. I feel a lot better doing that than whining about altogether too many neighbors' neglect.
As Good a Place as Any
This is as good a place as any to ask my dumb questions: I looked at an old Cheoy Lee Sunday; a masterpiece of teak, or pile of kindling, depending on your point of view. It had been lived aboard and there was cooking grease residue in every nook, cranny, hole, cubby, corner and on the overhead too. Could you strip out the stuff that has to stay dry and use a pressure wash? Or is it hours of work with toothbrush and Q tips? P.S. I think that heatsink looking thing is an antenna load for the radio
This is as good a place as any to ask my dumb questions: I looked at an old Cheoy Lee Sunday; a masterpiece of teak, or pile of kindling, depending on your point of view. It had been lived aboard and there was cooking grease residue in every nook, cranny, hole, cubby, corner and on the overhead too. Could you strip out the stuff that has to stay dry and use a pressure wash? Or is it hours of work with toothbrush and Q tips? P.S. I think that heatsink looking thing is an antenna load for the radio
Jeff is right
When I bought my $25K used Jag the dealer had detailed the car to look new and it came with a warranty. When I bought my $25K C-30 from a dealer they had put a new bottom on it, buffed the sides, done some glass work, worked on the wiring, cleaned the boat very well. and they took my old boat as trade-in, delivered the new boat to the slip rigged and ready to sail, and it came with a warranty. They made a little money and I was happy to pay them.
When I bought my $25K used Jag the dealer had detailed the car to look new and it came with a warranty. When I bought my $25K C-30 from a dealer they had put a new bottom on it, buffed the sides, done some glass work, worked on the wiring, cleaned the boat very well. and they took my old boat as trade-in, delivered the new boat to the slip rigged and ready to sail, and it came with a warranty. They made a little money and I was happy to pay them.
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